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I think they're talking about when merchants insist that you give them cash ("cash only"), not when buyers insist on giving cash. The usual assumption is that i

by derefr 1y ago

I think they're talking about when merchants insist that you give them cash ("cash only"), not when buyers insist on giving cash. The usual assumption is that if e.g. a street-food cart is cash-only, it's not because they can't accept cards (it's rather trivial nowadays) but rather that 1. they don't want to pay the interchange fees, and more importantly, 2. they want to be able to cook their books when reporting revenue.

amarant 1y ago
Yeah there's that cash only bar in central Stockholm that's cash only. Everyone just "knows" they launder money there. I forget the name of the bar, it's on a barge near Tantolunden. it's the shadiest place I know where you can't barely find any shade!
dumbfounder 1y ago
There are businesses that attract people that use cards fraudulently and the business gets flagged demand eventually dropped. Gas stations in less desirable neighborhoods in the US have this issue and some only take cash.
- renhanxue 1y ago
  Credit card fraud is not nearly as common in Europe as it is in the US. Additionally, and specifically in Sweden, the fees that banks charge businesses for handling cash (picking it up and depositing it at the end of each business day) have increased significantly in the last decade or two. This has been a significant factor in driving businesses away from cash - it's just expensive for them to deal with.
  - mercutio2 1y ago
    Are you sure Europe has less credit card fraud? When is your data from? The US has a much less secure system specifically because there was much less credit card fraud in the US than in Europe. Chip and PIN was an attempt to combat the rampant fraud in Europe. It may be true at this point, I haven’t been tracking recently, but it wasn’t in the past.
    - jrcplus 1y ago
      Another factor: I'm pretty sure it's more common that people have debit cards than credit cards in Europe, which equals less credit card fraud.
- Sammi 1y ago
  As were discussing here, swedes almost exclusively use online card transactions. Don't see much card fraud because of this.
bongodongobob 1y ago
Huh, interesting cultural difference. I couldn't give a flying fuck whether or not merchants I buy things from do their taxes correctly.
- riffraff 1y ago
  Definitely cultural: Italy has a big tradition of merchants evading taxes, and there have been multiple steps over the year to mandate card payments cause those imply the merchant will pay taxes. So if you are a law abiding citizen you can easily be pissed off that you get to pay taxes and they don't. For a few years "we don't take card" was widely interpreted as a strong indicator the merchant would evade taxes, and "I won't go there anymore" was a common reaction from some people. These days it's technically illegal and yet you will still find _some_ shops that only want cash.
what 1y ago
>they don’t want to pay interchange fees That seems totally fair if they can’t pass that cost on to you for using a card. Why should they have to pay to accept your patronage?
- renhanxue 1y ago
  A cheaper alternative to cards here is app payment via Swish (approximately like Venmo). Goes straight to the vendor's bank account at a flat rate of the equivalent of USD ~$0.15 per transaction.
  - what 1y ago
    Why don’t you pay the transaction fee every time you use your card or whatever then? Why should the merchant foot the bill?
    - renhanxue 1y ago
      Having a cash register and handling cash costs money too, doesn't it? It's just a cost of doing business.
      - what 1y ago
        No one has to pay a transaction fee to accept cash. And you didn’t answer why you shouldn’t pay that fee.
        riffraff 1y ago
        What do you think happens to the cash at the end of the day? Managing cash has costs too, they're just harder to quantify: you have to ferry it to a bank, you have increased risk of theft, fraud, and robberies, you need extra time to actually check the register etc. And then you risk losing business if you don't offer card payments because it's just more convenient for most customers (you may like wise lose some if you don't take cash, but that's a vanishing market).

by derefr 1y ago

amarant 1y ago

Yeah there's that cash only bar in central Stockholm that's cash only. Everyone just "knows" they launder money there. I forget the name of the bar, it's on a barge near Tantolunden. it's the shadiest place I know where you can't barely find any shade!

dumbfounder 1y ago

There are businesses that attract people that use cards fraudulently and the business gets flagged demand eventually dropped. Gas stations in less desirable neighborhoods in the US have this issue and some only take cash.

renhanxue 1y ago
Credit card fraud is not nearly as common in Europe as it is in the US. Additionally, and specifically in Sweden, the fees that banks charge businesses for handling cash (picking it up and depositing it at the end of each business day) have increased significantly in the last decade or two. This has been a significant factor in driving businesses away from cash - it's just expensive for them to deal with.
- mercutio2 1y ago
  Are you sure Europe has less credit card fraud? When is your data from? The US has a much less secure system specifically because there was much less credit card fraud in the US than in Europe. Chip and PIN was an attempt to combat the rampant fraud in Europe. It may be true at this point, I haven’t been tracking recently, but it wasn’t in the past.
  - jrcplus 1y ago
    Another factor: I'm pretty sure it's more common that people have debit cards than credit cards in Europe, which equals less credit card fraud.
Sammi 1y ago
As were discussing here, swedes almost exclusively use online card transactions. Don't see much card fraud because of this.

bongodongobob 1y ago

Huh, interesting cultural difference. I couldn't give a flying fuck whether or not merchants I buy things from do their taxes correctly.

riffraff 1y ago
Definitely cultural: Italy has a big tradition of merchants evading taxes, and there have been multiple steps over the year to mandate card payments cause those imply the merchant will pay taxes. So if you are a law abiding citizen you can easily be pissed off that you get to pay taxes and they don't. For a few years "we don't take card" was widely interpreted as a strong indicator the merchant would evade taxes, and "I won't go there anymore" was a common reaction from some people. These days it's technically illegal and yet you will still find _some_ shops that only want cash.

what 1y ago

>they don’t want to pay interchange fees That seems totally fair if they can’t pass that cost on to you for using a card. Why should they have to pay to accept your patronage?

renhanxue 1y ago
A cheaper alternative to cards here is app payment via Swish (approximately like Venmo). Goes straight to the vendor's bank account at a flat rate of the equivalent of USD ~$0.15 per transaction.
- what 1y ago
  Why don’t you pay the transaction fee every time you use your card or whatever then? Why should the merchant foot the bill?
  - renhanxue 1y ago
    Having a cash register and handling cash costs money too, doesn't it? It's just a cost of doing business.
    - what 1y ago
      No one has to pay a transaction fee to accept cash. And you didn’t answer why you shouldn’t pay that fee.
      - riffraff 1y ago
        What do you think happens to the cash at the end of the day? Managing cash has costs too, they're just harder to quantify: you have to ferry it to a bank, you have increased risk of theft, fraud, and robberies, you need extra time to actually check the register etc. And then you risk losing business if you don't offer card payments because it's just more convenient for most customers (you may like wise lose some if you don't take cash, but that's a vanishing market).