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> I think a lot of people in our world need to spend a little more time in introspection. Sadly, I suspect most or all of the investor class of people "in our

> I think a lot of people in our world need to spend a little more time in introspection. Sadly, I suspect most or all of the investor class of people "in our world" have done this introspection. They've checked with their peers and lawyers, and decided it's a perfectly acceptable risk to have the founders and staff of a company they're already invested in do illegal things and potentially end up in jail, if it makes the odds of that company being a 100x exit - so long as the investors and their staff are all insulated from the illegal behavior and jail time risks.

LiquidSky 1y ago
I'm not sure it's even at that level of rationality. People just don't think bad things will happen to them, either through naivety or a mistaken belief that they're so superior they'll never be caught. Jail is something that happens to other people, stupid people, not to me.
- immibis 1y ago
  I think people are either too worried about things like this or not worried enough - no middle. For every time I've heard of rich people thinking they can get away with ridiculous scandals I've also heard someone being discouraged from legitimate economic activity because what if some really unlikely thing happens and lands them in jail for dumb reasons. The latter type of people don't become businessmen, of course, so the selection bias is for the businessmen to all be from the unworried people.
bix6 1y ago
So much
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  Part of the value that VCs are supposed to provide society is being more skeptical than this.
AdieuToLogic 1y ago
> They've checked with their peers and lawyers, and decided it's a perfectly acceptable risk to have the founders and staff of a company they're already invested in do illegal things and potentially end up in jail ... No legitimate business person I have ever met holds this position, if for no other reason than criminal acts pierce the corporate veil[0]. > ... so long as the investors and their staff are all insulated from the illegal behavior and jail time risks. There is no such thing. 0 - https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2014/03/27/the-three-justifications-for-piercing-the-corporate-veil/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2014/03/27/the-three-justifi...
- margalabargala 1y ago
  > > ... so long as the investors and their staff are all insulated from the illegal behavior and jail time risks. > There is no such thing. Sure there is. You can never request an illegal act, never commit an illegal act, but create a culture where others become incentivized to do illegal acts. This can be done in sufficiently subtle ways that it's impossible to prove it was intentional. "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest"
  - lukan 1y ago
    "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest" That is not subtle enough(anymore), if you want to disguise ordering murder.
  - AdieuToLogic 1y ago
    > You can never request an illegal act, never commit an illegal act, but create a culture where others become incentivized to do illegal acts. This can be done in sufficiently subtle ways that it's impossible to prove it was intentional. I disagree. So do many state and federal RICO[0] laws. They were enacted for precisely this situation. But you do you. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corru...
    - margalabargala 1y ago
themafia 1y ago
> if it makes the odds of that company being a 100x exit Post that gain and you will have a 100x flood of civil lawsuits to deal with. You may escape jail but I doubt you escape with the gains.

LiquidSky 1y ago

I'm not sure it's even at that level of rationality. People just don't think bad things will happen to them, either through naivety or a mistaken belief that they're so superior they'll never be caught. Jail is something that happens to other people, stupid people, not to me.

immibis 1y ago
I think people are either too worried about things like this or not worried enough - no middle. For every time I've heard of rich people thinking they can get away with ridiculous scandals I've also heard someone being discouraged from legitimate economic activity because what if some really unlikely thing happens and lands them in jail for dumb reasons. The latter type of people don't become businessmen, of course, so the selection bias is for the businessmen to all be from the unworried people.

bix6 1y ago

So much

MangoToupe 1y ago
Part of the value that VCs are supposed to provide society is being more skeptical than this.

AdieuToLogic 1y ago

> They've checked with their peers and lawyers, and decided it's a perfectly acceptable risk to have the founders and staff of a company they're already invested in do illegal things and potentially end up in jail ... No legitimate business person I have ever met holds this position, if for no other reason than criminal acts pierce the corporate veil[0]. > ... so long as the investors and their staff are all insulated from the illegal behavior and jail time risks. There is no such thing. 0 - https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2014/03/27/the-three-justifications-for-piercing-the-corporate-veil/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2014/03/27/the-three-justifi...

margalabargala 1y ago
> > ... so long as the investors and their staff are all insulated from the illegal behavior and jail time risks. > There is no such thing. Sure there is. You can never request an illegal act, never commit an illegal act, but create a culture where others become incentivized to do illegal acts. This can be done in sufficiently subtle ways that it's impossible to prove it was intentional. "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest"
- lukan 1y ago
  "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest" That is not subtle enough(anymore), if you want to disguise ordering murder.
- AdieuToLogic 1y ago
  > You can never request an illegal act, never commit an illegal act, but create a culture where others become incentivized to do illegal acts. This can be done in sufficiently subtle ways that it's impossible to prove it was intentional. I disagree. So do many state and federal RICO[0] laws. They were enacted for precisely this situation. But you do you. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corru...
  - margalabargala 1y ago

themafia 1y ago

> if it makes the odds of that company being a 100x exit Post that gain and you will have a 100x flood of civil lawsuits to deal with. You may escape jail but I doubt you escape with the gains.