4 ms·

Those companies are also likely still in the red. They're banking on the hope that one day they will be profitable. I'm sure one of them will be.

dmix 1y ago
HN said the same thing about Uber forever.
- pessimizer 1y ago
  Uber didn't invent anything, they drove taxis out of business then jacked up the prices, squeezed the workers, and now everybody is riding around in regular people's crappy cars for more than a cab cost. And now I need a phone and to maintain my relationship with these two crappy companies rather than to wave at the street (which is what I used to do to get a ride.) That was literally what everybody said would happen.
  - jfengel 1y ago
    I think Uber invented (or at least made widely available) taxi-by-app. Having scores of cab companies, accessed by telephone call, was supremely user-hostile. If the cab companies had gotten together on an app, they might have shortcut Uber and all of its many dubious practices. They finally are starting to but it's much too late.
    - taormina 1y ago
      Taxi-by-app existed pre-Uber, the innovation was making the taxi actual show up. Austin had the apps, and I would order one, and the taxis would get distracted on the way to my house and pick up other fares, so I couldn't go where I wanted. They had every chance to not be outcompeted by Uber, but they couldn't stop being taxis. And, here we are.
      - zelphirkalt 1y ago
        Not only did taxi by app exist way earlier, it was also wide spread ... in some big countries.
      - eastbound 1y ago
        > the innovation was making the taxi actual show up Uber regularly doesn’t show up, just playing with “4… 3… 6… minutes left”. I always have to wait half an hour at a certain location, with a message “Just book a few minutes before your trip.” I’ve had a friend miss his flight because of Uber not showing up!
        rhetocj23 1y ago
        Im not sure why you got downvoted for that. Ive noticed similar shenanigans with Uber eats - they are definitely playing around with stuff to increase profitability its clear as day.
  - dmix 1y ago
    It completely changed an industry. Just because you don't like the current version doesn't mean it wasn't a major innovation. Uber was just the main player in scaling and marketing a new model across the entire globe, which was a huge and costly endeavor. LLMs have already changed how software can be written and a thousands of other business/consumer usecases, these companies are just battling it out and finding the most profitable niches. It will be a major business for a long time and the technology will mature and plateau pretty quickly. If R&D doesn't scale economically, it will just slow down and existing models will be heavily optimized to be cheaper to run. The dot com boom resulted in very few real industries and comparing the two is not very useful.
  - terminalshort 1y ago
    Uber is way cheaper and better than any cab ever was.
    - sillyfluke 1y ago
      From my experience, this is not the case in many european cities. In those places the main benefit seems to be not having to interact with the cab driver.
      - culi 1y ago
        You don't talk to your drivers? I've had a lot of genuinely good conversations in my rides. I always at least feel it out and see how much the driver wants to talk but it feels wrong to not say anything
        sillyfluke 1y ago
        I'm talking about the benefit to whoever is using them. Once you learn it's more expensive, there's little logic to keep on using it unless for the reason stated.
    - _fizz_buzz_ 1y ago
      Is that still true?
  - rjdj377dhabsn 1y ago
    I think you're definitely in the minority. For most of the world, Uber/Grab/Bolt have made transportation cheaper, safer, more convenient, and more comfortable.
  - bloomca 1y ago
    Uber definitely screwed the workers and probably existing taxi companies, but for the users it was a huge W, at least in many parts of the world. Taxi companies are notoriously scammy and it seems to be a very universal experience.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Uber didn't invent anything They didn't. They innovated, practically implemented ideas that resulted in the introduction of new goods and services [1]. This is a meaningful difference. Uber didn't invent anything. But they did pull ridesharing out of a hat. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation
  - j4hdufd8 1y ago
    > rather than to wave at the street (which is what I used to do to get a ride.) Ummm taxis aren't everywhere like NYC or something. Broadly speaking Uber will pick you up in an arbitrary place and take you anywhere.
- Analemma_ 1y ago
  Uber sold something like $50 billion in equity and debt before it went public, and although they're profitable now, to me it doesn't seem like they have answer to Waymo coming up fast in the rear-view mirror. I think Uber is still a scam, just one where the earlier investors fleeced the later ones who are never going to see the returns they paid for.
  - tyre 1y ago
    Uber is still >$10bn net negative over its lifetime. Claude estimates about –$19bn. It's still quite possible that Uber doesn't make that up in the near future.
- TrackerFF 1y ago
  For almost 20 year, Amazon has been the poster child of "A company can be unprofitable for years and still turn out a winner", but of course - not all companies can pivot from being a regular e-commerce company to cloud infrastructure/hosting, and become a money machine. So the question, at least to me, is how these AI companies will find a product or service that makes them profitable. Other than becoming actual monopolies in their current domains.

dmix 1y ago

HN said the same thing about Uber forever.

pessimizer 1y ago
Uber didn't invent anything, they drove taxis out of business then jacked up the prices, squeezed the workers, and now everybody is riding around in regular people's crappy cars for more than a cab cost. And now I need a phone and to maintain my relationship with these two crappy companies rather than to wave at the street (which is what I used to do to get a ride.) That was literally what everybody said would happen.
- jfengel 1y ago
  I think Uber invented (or at least made widely available) taxi-by-app. Having scores of cab companies, accessed by telephone call, was supremely user-hostile. If the cab companies had gotten together on an app, they might have shortcut Uber and all of its many dubious practices. They finally are starting to but it's much too late.
  - taormina 1y ago
    Taxi-by-app existed pre-Uber, the innovation was making the taxi actual show up. Austin had the apps, and I would order one, and the taxis would get distracted on the way to my house and pick up other fares, so I couldn't go where I wanted. They had every chance to not be outcompeted by Uber, but they couldn't stop being taxis. And, here we are.
    - zelphirkalt 1y ago
      Not only did taxi by app exist way earlier, it was also wide spread ... in some big countries.
    - eastbound 1y ago
      > the innovation was making the taxi actual show up Uber regularly doesn’t show up, just playing with “4… 3… 6… minutes left”. I always have to wait half an hour at a certain location, with a message “Just book a few minutes before your trip.” I’ve had a friend miss his flight because of Uber not showing up!
      - rhetocj23 1y ago
        Im not sure why you got downvoted for that. Ive noticed similar shenanigans with Uber eats - they are definitely playing around with stuff to increase profitability its clear as day.
- dmix 1y ago
  It completely changed an industry. Just because you don't like the current version doesn't mean it wasn't a major innovation. Uber was just the main player in scaling and marketing a new model across the entire globe, which was a huge and costly endeavor. LLMs have already changed how software can be written and a thousands of other business/consumer usecases, these companies are just battling it out and finding the most profitable niches. It will be a major business for a long time and the technology will mature and plateau pretty quickly. If R&D doesn't scale economically, it will just slow down and existing models will be heavily optimized to be cheaper to run. The dot com boom resulted in very few real industries and comparing the two is not very useful.
- terminalshort 1y ago
  Uber is way cheaper and better than any cab ever was.
  - sillyfluke 1y ago
    From my experience, this is not the case in many european cities. In those places the main benefit seems to be not having to interact with the cab driver.
    - culi 1y ago
      You don't talk to your drivers? I've had a lot of genuinely good conversations in my rides. I always at least feel it out and see how much the driver wants to talk but it feels wrong to not say anything
      - sillyfluke 1y ago
        I'm talking about the benefit to whoever is using them. Once you learn it's more expensive, there's little logic to keep on using it unless for the reason stated.
  - _fizz_buzz_ 1y ago
    Is that still true?
- rjdj377dhabsn 1y ago
  I think you're definitely in the minority. For most of the world, Uber/Grab/Bolt have made transportation cheaper, safer, more convenient, and more comfortable.
- bloomca 1y ago
  Uber definitely screwed the workers and probably existing taxi companies, but for the users it was a huge W, at least in many parts of the world. Taxi companies are notoriously scammy and it seems to be a very universal experience.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Uber didn't invent anything They didn't. They innovated, practically implemented ideas that resulted in the introduction of new goods and services [1]. This is a meaningful difference. Uber didn't invent anything. But they did pull ridesharing out of a hat. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation
- j4hdufd8 1y ago
  > rather than to wave at the street (which is what I used to do to get a ride.) Ummm taxis aren't everywhere like NYC or something. Broadly speaking Uber will pick you up in an arbitrary place and take you anywhere.
Analemma_ 1y ago
Uber sold something like $50 billion in equity and debt before it went public, and although they're profitable now, to me it doesn't seem like they have answer to Waymo coming up fast in the rear-view mirror. I think Uber is still a scam, just one where the earlier investors fleeced the later ones who are never going to see the returns they paid for.
- tyre 1y ago
  Uber is still >$10bn net negative over its lifetime. Claude estimates about –$19bn. It's still quite possible that Uber doesn't make that up in the near future.
TrackerFF 1y ago
For almost 20 year, Amazon has been the poster child of "A company can be unprofitable for years and still turn out a winner", but of course - not all companies can pivot from being a regular e-commerce company to cloud infrastructure/hosting, and become a money machine. So the question, at least to me, is how these AI companies will find a product or service that makes them profitable. Other than becoming actual monopolies in their current domains.