8 ms·

If I Were Google, I Wouldn’t Release A Native iOS 6 Maps App For Six Months

61 points by ryandvm 14y ago

vosper 14y ago
Mapping is, for me, the single greatest boon of smartphones. Nothing else is appreciated in a pinch like a good map or routing - I could do away with everything else. For Apple to cripple such a fantastic feature and leave themselves at the mercy of their arch-rival - whom they've been energetically suing - is baffling.
- joshu 14y ago
  I love the fact that I can parachute in to some random city and walk around like I know what I am doing between maps and Yelp. I do not want to give that up.
  - philjohn 14y ago
    Have you tried the new maps? The only real regressions I can see are poorer satellite imagery coverage (big whoop - it's a gimmick for 90% of the time) and non existent public transport routing. In my experience in the UK, the public transport routing never really worked on the google provided maps either. The maps themselves are provided by TomTom and in the UK and Europe at least they are very high quality, can't speak for the US.
    - starik36 14y ago
      I agree. I used it on the way home with the step by step directions and it was pretty nice and right on the spot. The graphics are also very pleasant and the visual cues are easy to grok. The only thing I miss is street view. But I doubt that's coming back.
    - trin_ 14y ago
      the maps for the town i'm living in (250k people, state capital in germany) are not entirely accurate. the positions of the listed businesses especially. some are downright false and some are misplaced by sometimes 400-500m.
    - masklinn 14y ago
      > The only real regressions I can see are poorer satellite imagery coverage Map coverage of US campuses is also way down. Which makes a very small but vocal segment (US uni students) completely lose their mind over the issue. If you go to the apple/iphone subreddit, 9 out of 10 maps criticisms are US uni campus. On the other hand, considering how those things work, I'd expect non-US locations to be just as downgraded as US campus (and testimonies in this thread seem to confirm it)
- headShrinker 14y ago
  Actually, I don't believe Apple has sued Google.
- greengarstudios 14y ago
  In one sense, it's actually the opposite. In iOS 5 and earlier, they were at the mercy of their arch-rival. Now, by doing their own map, "crippled" or not, they're independent. They're less at Google's mercy than they were before. If the Apple Maps app someday becomes as good as (or better) than Google Maps, this move will be seen as genius.
PhuFighter 14y ago
heh. Google can't release a Maps app - mostly because that would be duplicating a service that Apple already provides, and apple hates competition !
- cmelbye 14y ago
  Google has made several apps that duplicate functionality (Gmail, Chrome, etc.) Apple doesn't care.
- nsp 14y ago
  This was more true in 2008-2010 maybe, but recently Apple has been much less restrictive. There are 3rd party browsers (chrome, opera, Firefox)*, 3rd party mail apps(gmail, Firefox), and 3rd part maps apps (tomtom). That said, the lack of third party transit from apple is pretty horrible, and the API for the maps app is pretty limited (you have to throw the start and end points to your app, there's no overlays or anything like that)
swang 14y ago
Anyone who says, "just use the mobile web version!" has never actually used the Google Maps app (what do I even call this now?) Not being able to visually see bus routes (without clicking on another link) and the directions, and then also compare them to walking times is a big feature missing in the mobile web version. It also suffers from a large "below the fold" problem where on my iPhone 4S I cannot see the directions because the inputs for the start and end location take up so much space. It took me a while before I realized that Google had already loaded my directions. The only upside to mobile is having access to bike routes.
mjcohenw 14y ago
I think Apple believes that their map app will eventually become as good as Google's. Also, by doing this, Apple denies Google the information about what locations Apple's users are looking for and makes this available to only Apple.
veidr 14y ago
The iOS 6 maps subsystem is the worst OS component regression Apple has shipped since Open Transport 1.0. It is really bad, and if navigating a city is one of your key phone usage scenarios, this change makes Apple's arch-rival's devices significantly more attractive than they otherwise would be. I carry around both the latest Apple phone and the latest Google phone, and this is one area where the Google phone was already significantly superior, even before this fairly astonishing regression in iOS 6. Now the gap is much wider. Google could (mostly) fix that for Apple by releasing a Google maps app, but why should they?
- zachalexander 14y ago
  I think it's a tricky question. Wait six months: increases the pain iOS users feel, and possibly increases migration to Android, but by how much? If you've bought an iPhone 5, in many cases that means a 1-year contract (or renewal). And in six months, Apple may have released a better Maps app that fixes the problem. Release Google Maps for iOS sooner: iPhone users feel less pain, but Google Maps keeps more users. Actually though, the more I think of it, even in the latter scenario, Apple still wins, because whenever they release their fixed Maps app, they win back the entire market because they own the platform. So maybe the first strategy actually makes more sense.
  - dannyr 14y ago
    Well, not every IPhone user upgraded the past week or so. Some people might think twice about upgrading to the IPhone 5 based on the complaints on the Maps app. While there are people who are loyal Apple fans, there are some that are on the fence. This might be enough to push them over to Android or Windows Phone. Once you go to another platform, you're likely locked into a 2-year contract and it's going to be hard for Apple to get them back.
    - evoxed 14y ago
      > Once you go to another platform, you're likely locked into a 2-year contract and it's going to be hard for Apple to get them back. I think it would be very interesting though to see what would happen if Apple did face some sort of collateral damage whether for this or some other decision. Apple hasn't exactly found itself in many tight spots, or at least doesn't let it show. If a significant chunk of users left and Apple decided it was worth it to get them back, the fastest way to get over the contract hump is just what they've done occasionally in the past: cut the price, aggressively. Of course, this might not be realistic except in some warped little technodoomsday scenario, but still... I wonder...
epoxyhockey 14y ago
My bet is that the end users aren't even going to notice. I switched my website maps from Google to OSM/Leaflet and absolutely no one noticed or cared enough to email me about it. Disclaimer: I didn't use OSM's default/ugly color palette. Disclaimer #2: I have used iOS 6 maps, and the most visible change (other than the color palette) is that subway markers are clickable and that Yelp is more tightly integrated into the pin details.
- jc4p 14y ago
  I live in NYC and use my phone to navigate subways everywhere. I'll notice.
- untog 14y ago
  Changing the maps you use on your web site and changing the maps on a person's smartphone are hugely different. Without knowing more about your web site I can't do a detailed comparison, but unless people use your web site every day, on the move, to search for transit, business and social locations then the use cases just aren't the same. Not to mention that the biggest issue with Apple Maps is the dismal coverage outside of the US.
  - stickfigure 14y ago
    Here here. We switched our website's map system from Google to OSM/Leaflet when they jacked up the Maps API price. We love the new platform. But we just use it for yelp-like "create a bounding search zone and annotate places" effects. If I had to use the same system to actually route myself from place to place, it would drive me insane. As an actual mapping product, Google Maps is peerless.
- notatoad 14y ago
  End users maybe won't notice if they live in a major city and never want to leave. My town (which is small, but not nowhere: a fairly major tourist destination near a large city) has gone from detailed satellite imagery to no more than about 500 total pixels. You don't need to be a power user to see that kind of regression.
Irfaan 14y ago
"If I were Google, I wouldn’t launch a native Maps app for iOS 6 for at least six months, [...]" If I were in Google's shoes, I wouldn't be launching a native Maps app. Period. It's not like Maps is driving vast amounts of search revenue for Google. And with the degraded functionality of Apple's own Maps app, Google's Map app has become a reason for a buyer to consider switching to a Google-blessed Android phone. And I say this as a long-time iPhone user - Maps was an important application for me. Now that it's become less functional, I'm going to actively look at Android and WP.
- rimantas 14y ago
  > If I were in Google's shoes, I wouldn't be launching > a native Maps app. Period. I hope Google does just that. It takes a nontrivial amount of stupidity to think that Apple does not know shortcomings of its maps application and are not working on fixing that. Loosing iOS users for some barely noticeable amount of switchers is hardly a good business for Google—do they even make money from Android phones someone sells? I heard Microsoft makes more money than Google does.
  - chimeracoder 14y ago
    > do they even make money from Android phones someone sells? Their goal isn't to make money on the devices, so that's a little like comparing the margins on a Kindle Fire to the margins on an iPad.
  - Irfaan 14y ago
    "I hope Google does just that. It takes a nontrivial amount of stupidity to think that Apple does not know shortcomings of its maps application and are working on fixing that." I'm... not sure how to parse that sentence. I guess it's implying I have a non-trivial amount of stupidity, which probably explains my parsing problem. Transit routing is a hard problem to scale - Apple has taken a shortcut and pushed it off to 3rd party developers, who can tackle the much more approachable problem of solving it on a city-by-city basis. Which make sense... but this is still a large regression as far as users are concerned. And doesn't help folks that live in smaller cities. Yes, Apple is probably working on this. But now we come to an odd signalling issue - Apple has basically told 3rd parties that it is worth their time investing in this area. If-and-when Apple opts to plug this functionality hole, they've pulling the rug out from under these developers. And any app developer worth his salt has to be factoring that. And I'd be really surprised if Apple steps in any sooner than the next iOS refresh - fixing transit seems like a wonderful bullet point for iOS7. "Loosing iOS users for some barely noticeable amount of switchers is hardly a good business for Google [...]" Err... what are they losing, exactly? Users aren't inherently valuable. If there's value these iOS users add to Google, I'd love to hear it. Google is already generating local search and behavioral data via their large Android install base. Beyond brand visibility (which is going to be reduced, thanks to Apple's own offering), what does releasing their own native app get them? A native version that, again I want to emphasis, Apple is actively competing against their own product. Whatever Google releases, it is now going to be a 2nd class citizen, without the OS-level hooks Apple's own solution gets. And this assumes that Apple even lets them release an app. This wouldn't be the first time Apple has blocked Google from releasing an application on iOS because it duplicates existing 1st party functionality. Basically - why should Google release their own app? "—do they even make money from Android phones someone sells? I heard Microsoft makes more money than Google does." I don't think I can adaquately address this in a response to a comment. Google is not a charity, and Android does add to Google's bottom-line. In closing - I'd fucking love it if Google released a native Maps app. I'm an iPhone user that's gotten bit by this, and am sticking with iOS5 for now. But I'm not going to hold my breathe waiting. Particularly when I don't see a compelling reason for Google to save me.
mladenkovacevic 14y ago
This is exactly the OPPOSITE of why I'm intrigued and impressed by Google as a company. They just want people to have access to their services. They are not about authoritative control over who gets access and locking their users in a walled garden. Android is wonderful and Google's done a great job of integrating their services with it.. but why shouldn't iOS users have at least some of the same benefits (if Apple allows them of course)
- oconnore 14y ago
  Well, it is likely that some deal-making (or lack thereof) behind the curtain is why Apple had to release a new maps tool in the first place. But for users, yes.
- rimantas 14y ago
  > They just want people to have access to their services. They just want to have access to the people :)
- hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
  "They are not about authoritative control over who gets access and locking their users in a walled garden." You think the iOS maps app was stagnant for such a long time because of what? Because Apple is lazy? It's obvious they don't want to be on the hand of a competitor. Google Maps used to be free with a large API quota when released, remember? Then, once everybody was using it, they updated the API and imposed a much more limited free quota (almost useless), and released a premium version. Well, I tried getting in touch with anyone at Google to get a quote about the price for their premium API. I couldn't even talk to a human, let alone pay for the service. Now imagine you're Apple, and how much Google would charge.
  - dannyr 14y ago
    The new Google Map pricing affected the Top 0.35% of its API users. What kind of site do you have?
    - 14y ago
jser 14y ago
The lack of including public transit routing was a huge miss -- the "Designed in California", everyone has a car confused the decision making. I've found the Embark transit applications to be a great alternative (at least for Chicago). It doesn't make up for other missing features like Street View, but you'd be surprised how many users did not even know those features existed.
- mahyarm 14y ago
  SF & NYC are the two most transit heavy cities in the USA. Cupertino is a 1 hr drive from SF, and I bet many apple employees live in SF. I'm fairly sure this was just a cut feature for the time they have and they probably already have it working or are developing it for iOS 7.
- bathat 14y ago
  Unfortunately, Embark's applications don't do inter-city transit, and they only exist for a few large cities. Even with a 3rd party app installed, and completely ignoring the regression in UX, iOS 6 has a major regression in functionality. Try typing the following into Google maps: "Redondo Beach to UCSB" Then look at the public transit options. This is a completely plausible scenario, and look at how Google shines: 1) Seven different transit agencies are represented in the first four suggested routes: LA County Metro, LA City DOT, Culver City Bus, Amtrak, Metrolink and Santa Barbara Transit 2) Google has no trouble mixing and matching the agencies to find the best route (but gives the user the option of reducing transfers). 3) Each route option only requires a subset of those, usually three. 4) Google knows that UCSB means University of California Santa Barbara, and picks a reasonable location on campus 5) This journey works my iPhone 4, but not on an iPhone 5
hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
Really? Although the maps show less information, I found the navigation feature much more usable now. For me, it's the most useful feature since I don't have a car with GPS and TomTom's app is pricey. Now I have it built-in. For finding other stuff I can always use other apps or Google Maps mobile, which is very decent too.
- LoganCale 14y ago
  The routing is nice. The maps themselves are much less detailed and in many areas have no detail at all or are completely incorrect, in the sense that they show roads in places where there have never been roads, and roads which have been there for 30 years are absent.
  - hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
    The maps are okay for me, but I'm in a big city (São Paulo). Since the map data comes from TomTom, it should be decent, at least that's the GPS everybody I know uses.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
ardit33 14y ago
I am surprised Samsung didn't pounce on this opportunity in their marketing materials. Instead they are propping features like "Palm Picture Capture", "Tilt to Mute", and other dumb things that nobody really cares about. http://images.latinospost.com/data/images/full/5424/samsung-galaxy-s3-vs-iphone-5.jpg?w=600 http://images.latinospost.com/data/images/full/5424/samsung-... Things like this is what differentiates great companies, from ones that just doen't get it. Users don't care about useless feature list, they care about end experience.
minikomi 14y ago
iOS6 maps simply does not work in Tokyo. Here's a comparison my friend posted.. Tokyo Station doesn't exist at all, and the level of details is woeful. https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/277259_2354251073403_1105258603_o.jpg https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/27725...
- kalleboo 14y ago
  This one's better: https://twitter.com/ahm/status/248064518566051840 https://twitter.com/ahm/status/248064518566051840 The lack of train lines on the maps until you zoom in super-far is shockingly bad. At least your friend managed to find things with his searches - most of my searches for Japanese addresses just come up with "not found" error. Apple's maps definitely seem far more car-oriented than walking or public-transit oriented. I've taken to carrying an Android phone along with my iPhone.
  - sukuriant 14y ago
    To be fair, they look about the same, they're just not marked and the transit system isn't drawn in. It's just blank. If the transit system still exists and is accessible in the back end, then it's not so bad and is actually about the same --- just doesn't look as pretty. Oh, and I'm not an Apple fanboy. The most recent piece of Apple hardware I have is a iPhone 3G. My upgrade from that was a Motorola Droid and then a Droid Bionic.
    - minikomi 14y ago
      It's really not usable. Apart from having NO STATION (It's a really really big station - busiest and one of the biggest in Tokyo) several different train line's terminals are merged into one blue blip smack bang in the center. There are no convenience stores / landmark shops (eg. mosburger) which ALL Japanese use to find their way around due to lack of order in building numbers (no street numbers.) The 26, 27 etc. you see are numbered blocks which people use to find addresses - not visible on new map. No indication of one way streets in most cases. Shinjuku, like many dense parts of Tokyo, has a lot of one way streets.
rdl 14y ago
This clearly makes commercial sense for Google in the short/medium term, but fails "don't be evil". I got screwed by iOS 6 Beta's lack of transit directions in NYC this summer; I had no reason to expect a serious feature regression, and I'm amazed this made it to release. It might be a Cupertino vs SF thing, but really, even a car owning Bay Area tech person is going to use the subway when visiting NYC or some other cities, so even Apple employees though have prioritized it.
- stickfigure 14y ago
  How does not adding features to a competitor's product fail "don't be evil"? Sounds more like "don't be stupid". We don't see Apple distributing Siri for Android.
dannyr 14y ago
I remember tech pundits years ago saying that Android needs a killer app. I guess Android finally has one. It's Google Maps.
- eavc 14y ago
  For me it was always Google Maps thanks to the navigation.
steve8918 14y ago
I would pay a lot of money for a native Google Maps app. It's the single most used feature for me on my phone. The only feature I want is the ability to download maps to the phone. Going to another country and not having maps is debilitating. I spent $300 by not realizing how much data I would download, and download a map while in the middle of one of the Great Lakes in Canada. Being able to download maps while at a wifi connection for the city that I'm in is crucial.
robomartin 14y ago
Just throw an old 3GS or 4 in your pocket and use Google Maps by creating a private WiFi hot-spot with your iPhone 5. Wait a minute. The iPhone 5 doesn't do that. Hey, but it's longer, thinner and faster. What else do you want? It almost reminds me of Microsoft Word. Once MS Word got to the point where it did pretty much everything the majority of users wanted it to do there really was not reason to upgrade. As my own example, the only reason I upgraded some of our systems to Office 2007 was because we needed 64 bit systems for Finite Element Analysis and Office 2003 wouldn't go there. I know that they'll sell a lot of iPhone 5's, but I really think that they are starting to loose the magic. I, for one, don't really care about thinner or lighter beyond the 4S. A little larger, maybe, but there are so many things that the next generation iPhones could or should be doing that I can't imagine why Apple would pull resources into trying to out-map Google. 3D fly-over map views? Really? How much money did they waste on that crap? It's almost like Siri. It's a big smelly, smoldering pile of crap. I don't know of anyone that actually uses it. And it sure as hell doesn't work one bit like the TV ads. What a waste.
- starik36 14y ago
  Are you kidding? I use Siri every single solitary day. I use it to create reminders, I use it to dictate text messages, I use it to schedule appointments and find a local sandwich shop that delivers. Siri was one thing from iOS5 that actually met and exceeded the hype. From what I've seen tonight with iOS6, Siri got extended to deal with movie showings (another thing I frequently do with Flixter) and the latency seems a bit reduced.
  - robomartin 14y ago
    Well, that's certainly not my experience. Every time I've tried to use it the experience is far less than ideal. My wife gave up way before me. And most of my friends with iPhones share my experience. Just to address the question before it surfaces, no, I/we don't have any weird accents. Oh, yeah, the other issue: Try using Siri when your kids are around. Right.
    - 14y ago
kevinsd 14y ago
If I were Apple, I would had been very pissed off with Google's inferior Maps app for iOS than its Android one. If Maps is so core to a smartphone's overall experience, perhaps it is better to break it from a competitor's control sooner than later.
- SquareWheel 14y ago
  You do realize Apple created the app, right? Google only provides the data.
  - neop 14y ago
    But Google placed restrictions on how Apple could use the data. For example, Google did not allow Apple to have turn by turn navigation.
    - SquareWheel 14y ago
      I'm not familiar, is Google specifically blocking Apple from using that data or have they simply not published an API for turn-by-turn yet?
      - X-Istence 14y ago
        Google requires a contract if you want to use their mapping data in applications or if you go over certain free limits (which Apple's app certainly did). This contract allegedly contained terms that disallowed Apple from implementing Turn by Turn directions in their application.
bobbles 14y ago
I'm pretty sure that 95% of iOS users don't even know that it WAS Google maps. All they know is the maps on their phone suddenly don't have as much information as they used to. (and hey that new flyover thing looks cool) I don't really see holding out on a release being beneficial to Google, in fact quite the opposite. Now people will have an app called 'Google Maps' that will be the one they know and love, and might even get them to consider 'hey, maybe i should check out those Google phones as well'. I'm personally going to hold out on iOS6 for a little while longer while some of the issues get explained or ironed out.
Gustomaximus 14y ago
Has anyone used Ovi maps in iOS? I used to prefer Ovi Maps to Google Maps for navigation type usage back when I used both a E71 and Android handset. I wonder if Nokia has any ambition take advantage of the current situation?
- fpgeek 14y ago
  Given that Nokia is already selling map data to Amazon for the Kindle Fire, they almost certainly do. That being said, their means of taking advantage might be pointing out their WP8 phones' relative advantage in this area.
neop 14y ago
Many people here seem to be reading this as "Apple is stupid for switching to their own map app". But I think reading it as "Google is smart for forcing Apple to switch to an inferior map app" is a more realistic situation.
headShrinker 14y ago
Does anyone know why in the 5 years of the maps app it was never updated? Is it possible Google didn't want to maintain the app on iOS? We are assuming Apple had some control over whether the Google app stayed on iOS but the contract was up, and it's possible Google didn't want to renew. After all, Google has a web based app that works on iOS... Maybe that's all Google wants to give.
- raldi 14y ago
  Google didn't write the iOS 1-5 Maps app. Apple did.
bdreadz 14y ago
It's not mentioned here yet. In safari or chrome on iOS going to maps.google.com works pretty darn well. Except for showing me what direction I'm currently facing it is pretty darn close. So if the new app is giving you that much trouble or you need that little bit more of information that google provided you. Just open it up.
TallboyOne 14y ago
Christ guys, I count 5 misspellings of 'loose' and 'lose' in this thread. It's NOT that hard.
pinaceae 14y ago
If I were Google and my main stream of income was ads, I would not give a shit about platforms and release map apps with ads for any relevant platform. Not like Google makes significant money off of Android itself. But, the more apps and platforms switch off it, less eyeballs will see your ads. A bunch of apps switched to OpenMaps already, right? The whole GMaps API bruhaha already forgotten? But this doesn't fit into that nerd-rage fueled platform war narrative, so disregard. First OS to include a neckbeard trimmer wins.

61 points by ryandvm 14y ago

Mapping is, for me, the single greatest boon of smartphones. Nothing else is appreciated in a pinch like a good map or routing - I could do away with everything else. For Apple to cripple such a fantastic feature and leave themselves at the mercy of their arch-rival - whom they've been energetically suing - is baffling.

joshu 14y ago
I love the fact that I can parachute in to some random city and walk around like I know what I am doing between maps and Yelp. I do not want to give that up.
- philjohn 14y ago
  Have you tried the new maps? The only real regressions I can see are poorer satellite imagery coverage (big whoop - it's a gimmick for 90% of the time) and non existent public transport routing. In my experience in the UK, the public transport routing never really worked on the google provided maps either. The maps themselves are provided by TomTom and in the UK and Europe at least they are very high quality, can't speak for the US.
  - starik36 14y ago
    I agree. I used it on the way home with the step by step directions and it was pretty nice and right on the spot. The graphics are also very pleasant and the visual cues are easy to grok. The only thing I miss is street view. But I doubt that's coming back.
  - trin_ 14y ago
    the maps for the town i'm living in (250k people, state capital in germany) are not entirely accurate. the positions of the listed businesses especially. some are downright false and some are misplaced by sometimes 400-500m.
  - masklinn 14y ago
    > The only real regressions I can see are poorer satellite imagery coverage Map coverage of US campuses is also way down. Which makes a very small but vocal segment (US uni students) completely lose their mind over the issue. If you go to the apple/iphone subreddit, 9 out of 10 maps criticisms are US uni campus. On the other hand, considering how those things work, I'd expect non-US locations to be just as downgraded as US campus (and testimonies in this thread seem to confirm it)
headShrinker 14y ago
Actually, I don't believe Apple has sued Google.
greengarstudios 14y ago
In one sense, it's actually the opposite. In iOS 5 and earlier, they were at the mercy of their arch-rival. Now, by doing their own map, "crippled" or not, they're independent. They're less at Google's mercy than they were before. If the Apple Maps app someday becomes as good as (or better) than Google Maps, this move will be seen as genius.

PhuFighter 14y ago

heh. Google can't release a Maps app - mostly because that would be duplicating a service that Apple already provides, and apple hates competition !

cmelbye 14y ago
Google has made several apps that duplicate functionality (Gmail, Chrome, etc.) Apple doesn't care.
nsp 14y ago
This was more true in 2008-2010 maybe, but recently Apple has been much less restrictive. There are 3rd party browsers (chrome, opera, Firefox)*, 3rd party mail apps(gmail, Firefox), and 3rd part maps apps (tomtom). That said, the lack of third party transit from apple is pretty horrible, and the API for the maps app is pretty limited (you have to throw the start and end points to your app, there's no overlays or anything like that)

swang 14y ago

Anyone who says, "just use the mobile web version!" has never actually used the Google Maps app (what do I even call this now?) Not being able to visually see bus routes (without clicking on another link) and the directions, and then also compare them to walking times is a big feature missing in the mobile web version. It also suffers from a large "below the fold" problem where on my iPhone 4S I cannot see the directions because the inputs for the start and end location take up so much space. It took me a while before I realized that Google had already loaded my directions. The only upside to mobile is having access to bike routes.

mjcohenw 14y ago

I think Apple believes that their map app will eventually become as good as Google's. Also, by doing this, Apple denies Google the information about what locations Apple's users are looking for and makes this available to only Apple.

veidr 14y ago

The iOS 6 maps subsystem is the worst OS component regression Apple has shipped since Open Transport 1.0. It is really bad, and if navigating a city is one of your key phone usage scenarios, this change makes Apple's arch-rival's devices significantly more attractive than they otherwise would be. I carry around both the latest Apple phone and the latest Google phone, and this is one area where the Google phone was already significantly superior, even before this fairly astonishing regression in iOS 6. Now the gap is much wider. Google could (mostly) fix that for Apple by releasing a Google maps app, but why should they?

zachalexander 14y ago
I think it's a tricky question. Wait six months: increases the pain iOS users feel, and possibly increases migration to Android, but by how much? If you've bought an iPhone 5, in many cases that means a 1-year contract (or renewal). And in six months, Apple may have released a better Maps app that fixes the problem. Release Google Maps for iOS sooner: iPhone users feel less pain, but Google Maps keeps more users. Actually though, the more I think of it, even in the latter scenario, Apple still wins, because whenever they release their fixed Maps app, they win back the entire market because they own the platform. So maybe the first strategy actually makes more sense.
- dannyr 14y ago
  Well, not every IPhone user upgraded the past week or so. Some people might think twice about upgrading to the IPhone 5 based on the complaints on the Maps app. While there are people who are loyal Apple fans, there are some that are on the fence. This might be enough to push them over to Android or Windows Phone. Once you go to another platform, you're likely locked into a 2-year contract and it's going to be hard for Apple to get them back.
  - evoxed 14y ago
    > Once you go to another platform, you're likely locked into a 2-year contract and it's going to be hard for Apple to get them back. I think it would be very interesting though to see what would happen if Apple did face some sort of collateral damage whether for this or some other decision. Apple hasn't exactly found itself in many tight spots, or at least doesn't let it show. If a significant chunk of users left and Apple decided it was worth it to get them back, the fastest way to get over the contract hump is just what they've done occasionally in the past: cut the price, aggressively. Of course, this might not be realistic except in some warped little technodoomsday scenario, but still... I wonder...

epoxyhockey 14y ago

My bet is that the end users aren't even going to notice. I switched my website maps from Google to OSM/Leaflet and absolutely no one noticed or cared enough to email me about it. Disclaimer: I didn't use OSM's default/ugly color palette. Disclaimer #2: I have used iOS 6 maps, and the most visible change (other than the color palette) is that subway markers are clickable and that Yelp is more tightly integrated into the pin details.

jc4p 14y ago
I live in NYC and use my phone to navigate subways everywhere. I'll notice.
untog 14y ago
Changing the maps you use on your web site and changing the maps on a person's smartphone are hugely different. Without knowing more about your web site I can't do a detailed comparison, but unless people use your web site every day, on the move, to search for transit, business and social locations then the use cases just aren't the same. Not to mention that the biggest issue with Apple Maps is the dismal coverage outside of the US.
- stickfigure 14y ago
  Here here. We switched our website's map system from Google to OSM/Leaflet when they jacked up the Maps API price. We love the new platform. But we just use it for yelp-like "create a bounding search zone and annotate places" effects. If I had to use the same system to actually route myself from place to place, it would drive me insane. As an actual mapping product, Google Maps is peerless.
notatoad 14y ago
End users maybe won't notice if they live in a major city and never want to leave. My town (which is small, but not nowhere: a fairly major tourist destination near a large city) has gone from detailed satellite imagery to no more than about 500 total pixels. You don't need to be a power user to see that kind of regression.

Irfaan 14y ago

"If I were Google, I wouldn’t launch a native Maps app for iOS 6 for at least six months, [...]" If I were in Google's shoes, I wouldn't be launching a native Maps app. Period. It's not like Maps is driving vast amounts of search revenue for Google. And with the degraded functionality of Apple's own Maps app, Google's Map app has become a reason for a buyer to consider switching to a Google-blessed Android phone. And I say this as a long-time iPhone user - Maps was an important application for me. Now that it's become less functional, I'm going to actively look at Android and WP.

rimantas 14y ago
> If I were in Google's shoes, I wouldn't be launching > a native Maps app. Period. I hope Google does just that. It takes a nontrivial amount of stupidity to think that Apple does not know shortcomings of its maps application and are not working on fixing that. Loosing iOS users for some barely noticeable amount of switchers is hardly a good business for Google—do they even make money from Android phones someone sells? I heard Microsoft makes more money than Google does.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > do they even make money from Android phones someone sells? Their goal isn't to make money on the devices, so that's a little like comparing the margins on a Kindle Fire to the margins on an iPad.
- Irfaan 14y ago
  "I hope Google does just that. It takes a nontrivial amount of stupidity to think that Apple does not know shortcomings of its maps application and are working on fixing that." I'm... not sure how to parse that sentence. I guess it's implying I have a non-trivial amount of stupidity, which probably explains my parsing problem. Transit routing is a hard problem to scale - Apple has taken a shortcut and pushed it off to 3rd party developers, who can tackle the much more approachable problem of solving it on a city-by-city basis. Which make sense... but this is still a large regression as far as users are concerned. And doesn't help folks that live in smaller cities. Yes, Apple is probably working on this. But now we come to an odd signalling issue - Apple has basically told 3rd parties that it is worth their time investing in this area. If-and-when Apple opts to plug this functionality hole, they've pulling the rug out from under these developers. And any app developer worth his salt has to be factoring that. And I'd be really surprised if Apple steps in any sooner than the next iOS refresh - fixing transit seems like a wonderful bullet point for iOS7. "Loosing iOS users for some barely noticeable amount of switchers is hardly a good business for Google [...]" Err... what are they losing, exactly? Users aren't inherently valuable. If there's value these iOS users add to Google, I'd love to hear it. Google is already generating local search and behavioral data via their large Android install base. Beyond brand visibility (which is going to be reduced, thanks to Apple's own offering), what does releasing their own native app get them? A native version that, again I want to emphasis, Apple is actively competing against their own product. Whatever Google releases, it is now going to be a 2nd class citizen, without the OS-level hooks Apple's own solution gets. And this assumes that Apple even lets them release an app. This wouldn't be the first time Apple has blocked Google from releasing an application on iOS because it duplicates existing 1st party functionality. Basically - why should Google release their own app? "—do they even make money from Android phones someone sells? I heard Microsoft makes more money than Google does." I don't think I can adaquately address this in a response to a comment. Google is not a charity, and Android does add to Google's bottom-line. In closing - I'd fucking love it if Google released a native Maps app. I'm an iPhone user that's gotten bit by this, and am sticking with iOS5 for now. But I'm not going to hold my breathe waiting. Particularly when I don't see a compelling reason for Google to save me.

mladenkovacevic 14y ago

This is exactly the OPPOSITE of why I'm intrigued and impressed by Google as a company. They just want people to have access to their services. They are not about authoritative control over who gets access and locking their users in a walled garden. Android is wonderful and Google's done a great job of integrating their services with it.. but why shouldn't iOS users have at least some of the same benefits (if Apple allows them of course)

oconnore 14y ago
Well, it is likely that some deal-making (or lack thereof) behind the curtain is why Apple had to release a new maps tool in the first place. But for users, yes.
rimantas 14y ago
> They just want people to have access to their services. They just want to have access to the people :)
hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
"They are not about authoritative control over who gets access and locking their users in a walled garden." You think the iOS maps app was stagnant for such a long time because of what? Because Apple is lazy? It's obvious they don't want to be on the hand of a competitor. Google Maps used to be free with a large API quota when released, remember? Then, once everybody was using it, they updated the API and imposed a much more limited free quota (almost useless), and released a premium version. Well, I tried getting in touch with anyone at Google to get a quote about the price for their premium API. I couldn't even talk to a human, let alone pay for the service. Now imagine you're Apple, and how much Google would charge.
- dannyr 14y ago
  The new Google Map pricing affected the Top 0.35% of its API users. What kind of site do you have?
  - 14y ago

jser 14y ago

The lack of including public transit routing was a huge miss -- the "Designed in California", everyone has a car confused the decision making. I've found the Embark transit applications to be a great alternative (at least for Chicago). It doesn't make up for other missing features like Street View, but you'd be surprised how many users did not even know those features existed.

mahyarm 14y ago
SF & NYC are the two most transit heavy cities in the USA. Cupertino is a 1 hr drive from SF, and I bet many apple employees live in SF. I'm fairly sure this was just a cut feature for the time they have and they probably already have it working or are developing it for iOS 7.
bathat 14y ago
Unfortunately, Embark's applications don't do inter-city transit, and they only exist for a few large cities. Even with a 3rd party app installed, and completely ignoring the regression in UX, iOS 6 has a major regression in functionality. Try typing the following into Google maps: "Redondo Beach to UCSB" Then look at the public transit options. This is a completely plausible scenario, and look at how Google shines: 1) Seven different transit agencies are represented in the first four suggested routes: LA County Metro, LA City DOT, Culver City Bus, Amtrak, Metrolink and Santa Barbara Transit 2) Google has no trouble mixing and matching the agencies to find the best route (but gives the user the option of reducing transfers). 3) Each route option only requires a subset of those, usually three. 4) Google knows that UCSB means University of California Santa Barbara, and picks a reasonable location on campus 5) This journey works my iPhone 4, but not on an iPhone 5

hcarvalhoalves 14y ago

Really? Although the maps show less information, I found the navigation feature much more usable now. For me, it's the most useful feature since I don't have a car with GPS and TomTom's app is pricey. Now I have it built-in. For finding other stuff I can always use other apps or Google Maps mobile, which is very decent too.

LoganCale 14y ago
The routing is nice. The maps themselves are much less detailed and in many areas have no detail at all or are completely incorrect, in the sense that they show roads in places where there have never been roads, and roads which have been there for 30 years are absent.
- hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
  The maps are okay for me, but I'm in a big city (São Paulo). Since the map data comes from TomTom, it should be decent, at least that's the GPS everybody I know uses.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

ardit33 14y ago

I am surprised Samsung didn't pounce on this opportunity in their marketing materials. Instead they are propping features like "Palm Picture Capture", "Tilt to Mute", and other dumb things that nobody really cares about. http://images.latinospost.com/data/images/full/5424/samsung-galaxy-s3-vs-iphone-5.jpg?w=600 http://images.latinospost.com/data/images/full/5424/samsung-... Things like this is what differentiates great companies, from ones that just doen't get it. Users don't care about useless feature list, they care about end experience.

minikomi 14y ago

iOS6 maps simply does not work in Tokyo. Here's a comparison my friend posted.. Tokyo Station doesn't exist at all, and the level of details is woeful. https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/277259_2354251073403_1105258603_o.jpg https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/27725...

kalleboo 14y ago
This one's better: https://twitter.com/ahm/status/248064518566051840 https://twitter.com/ahm/status/248064518566051840 The lack of train lines on the maps until you zoom in super-far is shockingly bad. At least your friend managed to find things with his searches - most of my searches for Japanese addresses just come up with "not found" error. Apple's maps definitely seem far more car-oriented than walking or public-transit oriented. I've taken to carrying an Android phone along with my iPhone.
- sukuriant 14y ago
  To be fair, they look about the same, they're just not marked and the transit system isn't drawn in. It's just blank. If the transit system still exists and is accessible in the back end, then it's not so bad and is actually about the same --- just doesn't look as pretty. Oh, and I'm not an Apple fanboy. The most recent piece of Apple hardware I have is a iPhone 3G. My upgrade from that was a Motorola Droid and then a Droid Bionic.
  - minikomi 14y ago
    It's really not usable. Apart from having NO STATION (It's a really really big station - busiest and one of the biggest in Tokyo) several different train line's terminals are merged into one blue blip smack bang in the center. There are no convenience stores / landmark shops (eg. mosburger) which ALL Japanese use to find their way around due to lack of order in building numbers (no street numbers.) The 26, 27 etc. you see are numbered blocks which people use to find addresses - not visible on new map. No indication of one way streets in most cases. Shinjuku, like many dense parts of Tokyo, has a lot of one way streets.

rdl 14y ago

This clearly makes commercial sense for Google in the short/medium term, but fails "don't be evil". I got screwed by iOS 6 Beta's lack of transit directions in NYC this summer; I had no reason to expect a serious feature regression, and I'm amazed this made it to release. It might be a Cupertino vs SF thing, but really, even a car owning Bay Area tech person is going to use the subway when visiting NYC or some other cities, so even Apple employees though have prioritized it.

stickfigure 14y ago
How does not adding features to a competitor's product fail "don't be evil"? Sounds more like "don't be stupid". We don't see Apple distributing Siri for Android.

dannyr 14y ago

I remember tech pundits years ago saying that Android needs a killer app. I guess Android finally has one. It's Google Maps.

eavc 14y ago
For me it was always Google Maps thanks to the navigation.

steve8918 14y ago

I would pay a lot of money for a native Google Maps app. It's the single most used feature for me on my phone. The only feature I want is the ability to download maps to the phone. Going to another country and not having maps is debilitating. I spent $300 by not realizing how much data I would download, and download a map while in the middle of one of the Great Lakes in Canada. Being able to download maps while at a wifi connection for the city that I'm in is crucial.

robomartin 14y ago

Just throw an old 3GS or 4 in your pocket and use Google Maps by creating a private WiFi hot-spot with your iPhone 5. Wait a minute. The iPhone 5 doesn't do that. Hey, but it's longer, thinner and faster. What else do you want? It almost reminds me of Microsoft Word. Once MS Word got to the point where it did pretty much everything the majority of users wanted it to do there really was not reason to upgrade. As my own example, the only reason I upgraded some of our systems to Office 2007 was because we needed 64 bit systems for Finite Element Analysis and Office 2003 wouldn't go there. I know that they'll sell a lot of iPhone 5's, but I really think that they are starting to loose the magic. I, for one, don't really care about thinner or lighter beyond the 4S. A little larger, maybe, but there are so many things that the next generation iPhones could or should be doing that I can't imagine why Apple would pull resources into trying to out-map Google. 3D fly-over map views? Really? How much money did they waste on that crap? It's almost like Siri. It's a big smelly, smoldering pile of crap. I don't know of anyone that actually uses it. And it sure as hell doesn't work one bit like the TV ads. What a waste.

starik36 14y ago
Are you kidding? I use Siri every single solitary day. I use it to create reminders, I use it to dictate text messages, I use it to schedule appointments and find a local sandwich shop that delivers. Siri was one thing from iOS5 that actually met and exceeded the hype. From what I've seen tonight with iOS6, Siri got extended to deal with movie showings (another thing I frequently do with Flixter) and the latency seems a bit reduced.
- robomartin 14y ago
  Well, that's certainly not my experience. Every time I've tried to use it the experience is far less than ideal. My wife gave up way before me. And most of my friends with iPhones share my experience. Just to address the question before it surfaces, no, I/we don't have any weird accents. Oh, yeah, the other issue: Try using Siri when your kids are around. Right.
  - 14y ago

kevinsd 14y ago

If I were Apple, I would had been very pissed off with Google's inferior Maps app for iOS than its Android one. If Maps is so core to a smartphone's overall experience, perhaps it is better to break it from a competitor's control sooner than later.

SquareWheel 14y ago
You do realize Apple created the app, right? Google only provides the data.
- neop 14y ago
  But Google placed restrictions on how Apple could use the data. For example, Google did not allow Apple to have turn by turn navigation.
  - SquareWheel 14y ago
    I'm not familiar, is Google specifically blocking Apple from using that data or have they simply not published an API for turn-by-turn yet?
    - X-Istence 14y ago
      Google requires a contract if you want to use their mapping data in applications or if you go over certain free limits (which Apple's app certainly did). This contract allegedly contained terms that disallowed Apple from implementing Turn by Turn directions in their application.

bobbles 14y ago

I'm pretty sure that 95% of iOS users don't even know that it WAS Google maps. All they know is the maps on their phone suddenly don't have as much information as they used to. (and hey that new flyover thing looks cool) I don't really see holding out on a release being beneficial to Google, in fact quite the opposite. Now people will have an app called 'Google Maps' that will be the one they know and love, and might even get them to consider 'hey, maybe i should check out those Google phones as well'. I'm personally going to hold out on iOS6 for a little while longer while some of the issues get explained or ironed out.

Gustomaximus 14y ago

Has anyone used Ovi maps in iOS? I used to prefer Ovi Maps to Google Maps for navigation type usage back when I used both a E71 and Android handset. I wonder if Nokia has any ambition take advantage of the current situation?

fpgeek 14y ago
Given that Nokia is already selling map data to Amazon for the Kindle Fire, they almost certainly do. That being said, their means of taking advantage might be pointing out their WP8 phones' relative advantage in this area.

neop 14y ago

Many people here seem to be reading this as "Apple is stupid for switching to their own map app". But I think reading it as "Google is smart for forcing Apple to switch to an inferior map app" is a more realistic situation.

headShrinker 14y ago

Does anyone know why in the 5 years of the maps app it was never updated? Is it possible Google didn't want to maintain the app on iOS? We are assuming Apple had some control over whether the Google app stayed on iOS but the contract was up, and it's possible Google didn't want to renew. After all, Google has a web based app that works on iOS... Maybe that's all Google wants to give.

raldi 14y ago
Google didn't write the iOS 1-5 Maps app. Apple did.

bdreadz 14y ago

It's not mentioned here yet. In safari or chrome on iOS going to maps.google.com works pretty darn well. Except for showing me what direction I'm currently facing it is pretty darn close. So if the new app is giving you that much trouble or you need that little bit more of information that google provided you. Just open it up.

TallboyOne 14y ago

Christ guys, I count 5 misspellings of 'loose' and 'lose' in this thread. It's NOT that hard.

pinaceae 14y ago

If I were Google and my main stream of income was ads, I would not give a shit about platforms and release map apps with ads for any relevant platform. Not like Google makes significant money off of Android itself. But, the more apps and platforms switch off it, less eyeballs will see your ads. A bunch of apps switched to OpenMaps already, right? The whole GMaps API bruhaha already forgotten? But this doesn't fit into that nerd-rage fueled platform war narrative, so disregard. First OS to include a neckbeard trimmer wins.