12 ms·

Iran designing its own version of the Internet

49 points by kevinburke 14y ago

Sharma 14y ago
World is trying to get connected in every possible manner and here are some, want to isolate and have their own world.
- soneill 14y ago
  Such is the history of authoritarian regimes. If North Korea weren't so backwards, I imagine they'd be trying to do much the same thing.
  - base 14y ago
    North Korea has their own Country Intranet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network)
    - soneill 14y ago
      Ha, I should've guessed. I knew Cuba had a network like that, wasn't aware of North Korea's.
- ceslami 14y ago
  The people of Iran will suffer the most, unfortunately.
zingahgud 14y ago
Oh man, that headline made me laugh.
- rdl 14y ago
  Don't underestimate Iran. They aren't quite the US or Japan, but ahead of any middle eastern non Israel nation, probably ahead of India in many ways, and on par with Brazil or Spain or maybe Italy in terms of domestic engineering talent and ability.
  - jim_kaiser 14y ago
    On the other hand, they are not geniuses to solve the problems of internet security once and for all. All they might manage to do is stop free flow of information into and out of the country. The "Iron curtain" never helped anyone. To use Huawei's equipment to achieve their national security needs is just naive. You might as well handover your country's internet infrastructure to China itself. [EDIT: Added some links regarding Huawei (Whether the allegations are true or not, they are controversial and risky to trust): http://www.truthalliance.net/Archive/News/tabid/67/ID/9347/China-tech-company-brags-We-hacked-US-telecoms.aspx http://www.truthalliance.net/Archive/News/tabid/67/ID/9347/C... http://www.telecomstechnews.com/news/2012/sep/14/are-foreign-regulators-discriminating-against-huawei/ http://www.telecomstechnews.com/news/2012/sep/14/are-foreign... ]
    - rdl 14y ago
      DoD runs multiple separate versions of the Internet (I'd call them Internets vs. just a big intranet due to size and scope); NIPRnet for unclassified and SIPRnet for Secret are the two big ones. It's totally reasonable for Iran to do something at that level. Huawei probably won't help the USG vs. Iran, so using Huawei for this is a better choice than using Cisco, actually.
  - zingahgud 14y ago
    I fear I was misunderstood. What made me laugh was the thought that the internet is a sort of wild west of ideologies and Iran, from what little I know, is a very tightly controlled ideological context. I did not even read the article. It's just the title that struck me as paradoxical. "Internet" == uncontrollable, Iran == tight control, "Internet" + Iran == WTF? Hope that makes sense. I realise internet here probably just means a research network. I have tremendous respect for the Iranian people and certainly their computer professionals. From what little I've seen they are very bright. As for comparisons in terms of engineering talent I was thinking almost on par with Russia. If I'm way off the mark it just shows how little I know. Pay no mind.
dmix 14y ago
The modern Berlin wall.
- mlvljr 14y ago
  fire*wall
joelrunyon 14y ago
How much of this is them "isolating" themselves and how much is it simply in response to the fact that they're cut off from doing commerce with much of the U.S. (and other countries?) due to trade sanctions, etc? serious question I would like to know the answer to
- kapitalx 14y ago
  What will likely happen is that Government entities/businesses and other large business organizations will apply for licenses to access the Internet for commercial use. This is purely an information control/censoring move.
- soneill 14y ago
  I think it's more the former than the latter. Restricting or controlling the flow of information is a standard tool for authoritarian regimes; it's easier to control your population when you can control how they perceive the world. The Iranians have additional incentives in their national security concerns, as they'd obviously like to avoid a repeat of the Flame attack.
- collinanderson 14y ago
  Every morning I wake up to dozens of articles in my Google Reader from Fars News, Mehr and IRIB that assure me that Iran's international trade is doing just fine without the West. Surely state media wouldn't lie...
angersock 14y ago
I wonder how willing they'd be to host dissident content for first-world nations. I wonder how cooperative the Iranian cybercommand or equivalent would be with US DMCA takedowns.
jon6 14y ago
I'm not a network engineer but is this all that difficult to do? I imagine if you control the AS (autonomous system) then you can control all routes into and out of the country, so they can easily block anything out of the country unless it comes from some known IP (like the computers of the elite class).
mindstab 14y ago
The internet is (obviously) one of the best examples of the network effect. Sure you can technically wall of a subset of it and live on your own, but why would any sane person want to? I mean I get it, they want to limit access to non ideologically compatible ideas, which is most of everything. But then that severely limits the utility of their new internet. Right now the economy is coasting pretty heavily on oil exports. If unlike say Qatar, they don't invest massively in more long term sustainable economic growth (which tends to require education, hence Qatar's massive education boom) then in a bit they are going to be pretty screwed. And cutting off this access to information is just so short sighted. It's like blinding yourself because right now you can afford the servants to take care of all your needs. Long term, when you run out of money, you might wish you had eyes so you could earn some new money.
- dfc 14y ago
  They will be able to harness a lot of the network effects of the Internet. Contrary to the linkbait title, they are not building "their own version" of the Internet; they are building a separate special purpose network of networks, much like SIPRNet. As long as they don't mess with any of the protocols they will be able to take advantage of advances in COTS hardware and software. Furthermore they seem to be taking advantage of China's surveillance machine. Instead of building their own version of the "panopticon router" they are buying China's. Most importantly, your analogy misses the point about the Internet and the current power structure in Iran. If they do nothing to stem the free flow of information they will not be able to hold on to power long enough to run out of oil money. Comparing Qatar to Iran is apples to oranges. The political climate in Qatar is remarkably different than the political climate in Iran. To a large extent your analysis is spot on. However you are assuming that the Iranian leadership is a semi-benevolent organization whose central goal is the betterment of the average Iranian's life. This is simply not the case in Iran. The Iranian leaders are more concerned with maintaining power and the destruction of Israel than they are with improving the lives of Iranians.
  - moo 14y ago
    The West also censors. My understanding is Britain censored Press TV for spurious reasons using front organization Ofcom. French embassy refused visas for Iranian reporters. Germany also blocks Iranian news. Noam Chomsky, an old man who preaches the Golden Rule, was refused entry into Israel. Lily Sussman had Arab characters taped on her laptop keys and the Israeli border security shot holes through it. Fretting about another countries surveillance on its citizens seems a little silly today. Ahmadinejad was also elected, the electorate preferred potatoes over Western appeals to be able to wear bikinis.
jfasi 14y ago
Is it just me, or wouldn't it be fairly trivial for a troublesome country to just point a satellite at Iran and give citizens access that way?
- kapitalx 14y ago
  It is possible, however it is inconvenient and sometimes impossible for the majority to gain access this way. Also a large portion of the population uses internet cafes to access the internet, and they'd have to switch over the the national interanet.
- gaius 14y ago
  It's pretty trivial to block a satellite.
  - collinanderson 14y ago
    Which is why they do, it's also very trivial to hunt down those privileged people with BGAN dishes deployed.
jim_kaiser 14y ago
This is obviously not going to solve the problem of cyber attacks. As I remember, even the stuxnet attack on their nuclear reactor was ultimately caused by transmission through a pen drive into an isolated network. No reason, the same cannot be achieved even if they isolate the country's network. More entry points as I see it.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  They say it's meant to be a solution for cyber attacks, and to a tiny extent, it might be; but as everyone knows, the actual purpose is to cut off people from "information super-highway" completely (one step at a time). As we all know, "Ignorance is Strength", and they'd like it better if we could only watch state TV and read stories from official news agencies. Would solve a lot of problems, or so do they think.
- ImprovedSilence 14y ago
  You are assuming that pen drives are still in use on their isolated networks. It matters such as these, it is very possible that the pen drive tactic works once, before measures are taken to prevent it again.
zodiac1111 14y ago
the Chinses government is doing this too. hate the Great Fire Wall
evanlong 14y ago
So Iran is making their own "AOL"? perhaps they'll call it "IOL". Hopefully, they'll mail CDs to their citizens with FREE 1000 hours of internet time.
hughesey 14y ago
The Internet is Iran is already quite unique, thanks to the strict Government controlled filters in place. There was a recent study testing the top 100 websites in each of Alexa's site categories. It tested if each was available in Iran using the Iran Firewall Test (http://viewdns.info/iranfirewall/ http://viewdns.info/iranfirewall/). The result? Approximately 27% of sites we tested were blocked. Categories such as adult sites saw much higher rates. The research piece is here for anyone interested: http://viewdns.info/research/current-state-of-internet-censorship-in-iran/ http://viewdns.info/research/current-state-of-internet-censo...
Tichy 14y ago
Obviously it wouldn't be an internet, only an iranet.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
gaius 14y ago
They could use DECnet for it, now there was a proper protocol. And LAT for the "last mile".
sturadnidge 14y ago
> “When countries section off parts of the Web, not only do their citizens suffer, everyone does.” No-one* in western democracies would ever consider doing such a thing. *http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/27/twitter-facebook-riot-restrictions-eric-schmidt http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/27/twitter-facebook...
umrashrf 14y ago
I support Iranian internet regime. Currently it's very clear that internet is run by Americans and because we need more open and controlled internet for the world, I would ask every Muslim country to support it too for it to become the next Internet for the world.
jschuur 14y ago
Something like 60% of Iranians are under 30. This is Iran's way of limiting any easy communication and organization amongst a younger generation seeking change.
ImprovedSilence 14y ago
>> "a plan to take key government agencies and military outfits offline and onto the new network by the end of September. " If I'm not mistaken, the US govt has "offline" internets, as well as stripped down and monitored internets. Not for all the citizens of course, but naturally for the key govt agencies, no? Doesn't really seem like news to me.

49 points by kevinburke 14y ago

Sharma 14y ago

World is trying to get connected in every possible manner and here are some, want to isolate and have their own world.

soneill 14y ago
Such is the history of authoritarian regimes. If North Korea weren't so backwards, I imagine they'd be trying to do much the same thing.
- base 14y ago
  North Korea has their own Country Intranet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network)
  - soneill 14y ago
    Ha, I should've guessed. I knew Cuba had a network like that, wasn't aware of North Korea's.
ceslami 14y ago
The people of Iran will suffer the most, unfortunately.

zingahgud 14y ago

Oh man, that headline made me laugh.

rdl 14y ago
Don't underestimate Iran. They aren't quite the US or Japan, but ahead of any middle eastern non Israel nation, probably ahead of India in many ways, and on par with Brazil or Spain or maybe Italy in terms of domestic engineering talent and ability.
- jim_kaiser 14y ago
  On the other hand, they are not geniuses to solve the problems of internet security once and for all. All they might manage to do is stop free flow of information into and out of the country. The "Iron curtain" never helped anyone. To use Huawei's equipment to achieve their national security needs is just naive. You might as well handover your country's internet infrastructure to China itself. [EDIT: Added some links regarding Huawei (Whether the allegations are true or not, they are controversial and risky to trust): http://www.truthalliance.net/Archive/News/tabid/67/ID/9347/China-tech-company-brags-We-hacked-US-telecoms.aspx http://www.truthalliance.net/Archive/News/tabid/67/ID/9347/C... http://www.telecomstechnews.com/news/2012/sep/14/are-foreign-regulators-discriminating-against-huawei/ http://www.telecomstechnews.com/news/2012/sep/14/are-foreign... ]
  - rdl 14y ago
    DoD runs multiple separate versions of the Internet (I'd call them Internets vs. just a big intranet due to size and scope); NIPRnet for unclassified and SIPRnet for Secret are the two big ones. It's totally reasonable for Iran to do something at that level. Huawei probably won't help the USG vs. Iran, so using Huawei for this is a better choice than using Cisco, actually.
- zingahgud 14y ago
  I fear I was misunderstood. What made me laugh was the thought that the internet is a sort of wild west of ideologies and Iran, from what little I know, is a very tightly controlled ideological context. I did not even read the article. It's just the title that struck me as paradoxical. "Internet" == uncontrollable, Iran == tight control, "Internet" + Iran == WTF? Hope that makes sense. I realise internet here probably just means a research network. I have tremendous respect for the Iranian people and certainly their computer professionals. From what little I've seen they are very bright. As for comparisons in terms of engineering talent I was thinking almost on par with Russia. If I'm way off the mark it just shows how little I know. Pay no mind.

dmix 14y ago

The modern Berlin wall.

mlvljr 14y ago
fire*wall

joelrunyon 14y ago

How much of this is them "isolating" themselves and how much is it simply in response to the fact that they're cut off from doing commerce with much of the U.S. (and other countries?) due to trade sanctions, etc? serious question I would like to know the answer to

kapitalx 14y ago
What will likely happen is that Government entities/businesses and other large business organizations will apply for licenses to access the Internet for commercial use. This is purely an information control/censoring move.
soneill 14y ago
I think it's more the former than the latter. Restricting or controlling the flow of information is a standard tool for authoritarian regimes; it's easier to control your population when you can control how they perceive the world. The Iranians have additional incentives in their national security concerns, as they'd obviously like to avoid a repeat of the Flame attack.
collinanderson 14y ago
Every morning I wake up to dozens of articles in my Google Reader from Fars News, Mehr and IRIB that assure me that Iran's international trade is doing just fine without the West. Surely state media wouldn't lie...

angersock 14y ago

I wonder how willing they'd be to host dissident content for first-world nations. I wonder how cooperative the Iranian cybercommand or equivalent would be with US DMCA takedowns.

jon6 14y ago

I'm not a network engineer but is this all that difficult to do? I imagine if you control the AS (autonomous system) then you can control all routes into and out of the country, so they can easily block anything out of the country unless it comes from some known IP (like the computers of the elite class).

mindstab 14y ago

The internet is (obviously) one of the best examples of the network effect. Sure you can technically wall of a subset of it and live on your own, but why would any sane person want to? I mean I get it, they want to limit access to non ideologically compatible ideas, which is most of everything. But then that severely limits the utility of their new internet. Right now the economy is coasting pretty heavily on oil exports. If unlike say Qatar, they don't invest massively in more long term sustainable economic growth (which tends to require education, hence Qatar's massive education boom) then in a bit they are going to be pretty screwed. And cutting off this access to information is just so short sighted. It's like blinding yourself because right now you can afford the servants to take care of all your needs. Long term, when you run out of money, you might wish you had eyes so you could earn some new money.

dfc 14y ago
They will be able to harness a lot of the network effects of the Internet. Contrary to the linkbait title, they are not building "their own version" of the Internet; they are building a separate special purpose network of networks, much like SIPRNet. As long as they don't mess with any of the protocols they will be able to take advantage of advances in COTS hardware and software. Furthermore they seem to be taking advantage of China's surveillance machine. Instead of building their own version of the "panopticon router" they are buying China's. Most importantly, your analogy misses the point about the Internet and the current power structure in Iran. If they do nothing to stem the free flow of information they will not be able to hold on to power long enough to run out of oil money. Comparing Qatar to Iran is apples to oranges. The political climate in Qatar is remarkably different than the political climate in Iran. To a large extent your analysis is spot on. However you are assuming that the Iranian leadership is a semi-benevolent organization whose central goal is the betterment of the average Iranian's life. This is simply not the case in Iran. The Iranian leaders are more concerned with maintaining power and the destruction of Israel than they are with improving the lives of Iranians.
- moo 14y ago
  The West also censors. My understanding is Britain censored Press TV for spurious reasons using front organization Ofcom. French embassy refused visas for Iranian reporters. Germany also blocks Iranian news. Noam Chomsky, an old man who preaches the Golden Rule, was refused entry into Israel. Lily Sussman had Arab characters taped on her laptop keys and the Israeli border security shot holes through it. Fretting about another countries surveillance on its citizens seems a little silly today. Ahmadinejad was also elected, the electorate preferred potatoes over Western appeals to be able to wear bikinis.

jfasi 14y ago

Is it just me, or wouldn't it be fairly trivial for a troublesome country to just point a satellite at Iran and give citizens access that way?

kapitalx 14y ago
It is possible, however it is inconvenient and sometimes impossible for the majority to gain access this way. Also a large portion of the population uses internet cafes to access the internet, and they'd have to switch over the the national interanet.
gaius 14y ago
It's pretty trivial to block a satellite.
- collinanderson 14y ago
  Which is why they do, it's also very trivial to hunt down those privileged people with BGAN dishes deployed.

jim_kaiser 14y ago

This is obviously not going to solve the problem of cyber attacks. As I remember, even the stuxnet attack on their nuclear reactor was ultimately caused by transmission through a pen drive into an isolated network. No reason, the same cannot be achieved even if they isolate the country's network. More entry points as I see it.

pooriaazimi 14y ago
They say it's meant to be a solution for cyber attacks, and to a tiny extent, it might be; but as everyone knows, the actual purpose is to cut off people from "information super-highway" completely (one step at a time). As we all know, "Ignorance is Strength", and they'd like it better if we could only watch state TV and read stories from official news agencies. Would solve a lot of problems, or so do they think.
ImprovedSilence 14y ago
You are assuming that pen drives are still in use on their isolated networks. It matters such as these, it is very possible that the pen drive tactic works once, before measures are taken to prevent it again.

zodiac1111 14y ago

the Chinses government is doing this too. hate the Great Fire Wall

evanlong 14y ago

So Iran is making their own "AOL"? perhaps they'll call it "IOL". Hopefully, they'll mail CDs to their citizens with FREE 1000 hours of internet time.

hughesey 14y ago

The Internet is Iran is already quite unique, thanks to the strict Government controlled filters in place. There was a recent study testing the top 100 websites in each of Alexa's site categories. It tested if each was available in Iran using the Iran Firewall Test (http://viewdns.info/iranfirewall/ http://viewdns.info/iranfirewall/). The result? Approximately 27% of sites we tested were blocked. Categories such as adult sites saw much higher rates. The research piece is here for anyone interested: http://viewdns.info/research/current-state-of-internet-censorship-in-iran/ http://viewdns.info/research/current-state-of-internet-censo...

Tichy 14y ago

Obviously it wouldn't be an internet, only an iranet.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

gaius 14y ago

They could use DECnet for it, now there was a proper protocol. And LAT for the "last mile".

sturadnidge 14y ago

> “When countries section off parts of the Web, not only do their citizens suffer, everyone does.” No-one* in western democracies would ever consider doing such a thing. *http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/27/twitter-facebook-riot-restrictions-eric-schmidt http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/27/twitter-facebook...

umrashrf 14y ago

I support Iranian internet regime. Currently it's very clear that internet is run by Americans and because we need more open and controlled internet for the world, I would ask every Muslim country to support it too for it to become the next Internet for the world.

jschuur 14y ago

Something like 60% of Iranians are under 30. This is Iran's way of limiting any easy communication and organization amongst a younger generation seeking change.

ImprovedSilence 14y ago

>> "a plan to take key government agencies and military outfits offline and onto the new network by the end of September. " If I'm not mistaken, the US govt has "offline" internets, as well as stripped down and monitored internets. Not for all the citizens of course, but naturally for the key govt agencies, no? Doesn't really seem like news to me.