4 ms·

Is it true there like 15 Million undocumented people in the country? I thought there were like 1 million max.

by moomoo11 1y ago

keanb 1y ago
[flagged]
- array_key_first 1y ago
  The problem isn't the undocumented people or how many we have, the problem is the rampant disinformation and populist messaging around them. Basically, we can trivially tap into the human mind's natural inclination for tribalism and use undocumented people as a bargaining chip. We can tell people that THEY cause this problem and that problem, because THEY don't share our values, our skin, our culture, our mindset. It works extremely effectively because: 1. Everyone likes to hear that they're not the ones causing problems, someone else is. 2. Humans naturally segregate based on commonalities. So people are in one group, and undocumented people in another. Sure seems like us versus them then. 3. The solutions are simple, so people have high confidence in them. Build a wall. So simple and easy, a toddler can understand that! Whether it works is not relevant. 4. Americans already have a strong sense of national identity. 5. The economy and perceived economy/QOL is actually in trouble, so we have legitimate justifications for our populist messaging. But, had it not been undocumented people, it would've just been something else. We know that because we do see it successfully, time and time and time again, for other groups. Trans people. That's another one that is in use today, right now, for populist messaging and it's highly effective.
  - paintly 1y ago
    You're right about the simplistic messaging but having a large amount of undocumented and uncontrolled immigration is still a problem because the infrastructure isn't in place to accommodate this, and it's near impossible to plan for if no-one is accurately keeping track of the numbers.
rpjt 1y ago
Nobody really knows the true number.
HankStallone 1y ago
They've been saying 11 million for at least a couple decades that I can remember. It's probably a lot higher now, but no one in a position to find out has ever wanted to know.
segmondy 1y ago
You are naive if you think this is about undocumented folks.
pjc50 1y ago
By definition, it is impossible to count this accurately and can only be estimated from shadow variables.

Is it true there like 15 Million undocumented people in the country? I thought there were like 1 million max.

keanb 1y ago

[flagged]

array_key_first 1y ago
The problem isn't the undocumented people or how many we have, the problem is the rampant disinformation and populist messaging around them. Basically, we can trivially tap into the human mind's natural inclination for tribalism and use undocumented people as a bargaining chip. We can tell people that THEY cause this problem and that problem, because THEY don't share our values, our skin, our culture, our mindset. It works extremely effectively because: 1. Everyone likes to hear that they're not the ones causing problems, someone else is. 2. Humans naturally segregate based on commonalities. So people are in one group, and undocumented people in another. Sure seems like us versus them then. 3. The solutions are simple, so people have high confidence in them. Build a wall. So simple and easy, a toddler can understand that! Whether it works is not relevant. 4. Americans already have a strong sense of national identity. 5. The economy and perceived economy/QOL is actually in trouble, so we have legitimate justifications for our populist messaging. But, had it not been undocumented people, it would've just been something else. We know that because we do see it successfully, time and time and time again, for other groups. Trans people. That's another one that is in use today, right now, for populist messaging and it's highly effective.
- paintly 1y ago
  You're right about the simplistic messaging but having a large amount of undocumented and uncontrolled immigration is still a problem because the infrastructure isn't in place to accommodate this, and it's near impossible to plan for if no-one is accurately keeping track of the numbers.

rpjt 1y ago

Nobody really knows the true number.

HankStallone 1y ago

They've been saying 11 million for at least a couple decades that I can remember. It's probably a lot higher now, but no one in a position to find out has ever wanted to know.

segmondy 1y ago

You are naive if you think this is about undocumented folks.

pjc50 1y ago

By definition, it is impossible to count this accurately and can only be estimated from shadow variables.