6 ms·

That's the entire economic premise of AI: labor automation. The end game is more returns to financial capital and less (or no) returns to human capital.

saubeidl 1y ago
Or in slightly more Marxist analysis: a complete power grab by the capitalist class, who sees AI as the great liberator from its pesky dependence on the working class - who could keep the worst excesses in check so far through collective action.
- cornholio 1y ago
  The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of power struggles.
- teaearlgraycold 1y ago
  The bubble is a gamble from the bourgeois class. Even though they are taking huge risks and burning an insane amount of money on Sam Altman’s empty promises the possibility that they could stop paying out payroll is tantalizing enough to keep going for quite a while.
- slowmovintarget 1y ago
  Marxist analysis is essentially nonsense, though it sure feels good. Makes you tap your toes and really feel like "one of the People." But it's been bunk from the day it was penned. Jonathan Blow took this notion to task when said that the means of production are a $200 laptop you can buy at Walmart. What's really going on is industrial grade existential angst. "If my competitor trains a robot to do this job, they can run their factory 24x7, dramatically lowering their costs. If they do it and I don't, I can't compete. Therefore, I've got to do it or die." Rinse and repeat for call centers, web shops with "assistants," or software feature mills. Those CEOs and CTOs are convinced that the other guy is doing it, and their business will fail if they don't. There are a few that know better. This isn't a class struggle. It's cold-sweats-at-night fear of the future.
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    > Jonathan Blow took this notion to task when said that the means of production are a $200 laptop you can buy at Walmart. That is bunk, in the current age. The means of production is a $200 laptop and a $1B nvidia cluster. > What's really going on is industrial grade existential angst. "If my competitor trains a robot to do this job, they can run their factory 24x7, dramatically lowering their costs This is not exclusive to what I said. All this "lowering of costs" is archieved by a reduced dependence on the working class. No struggle but the class struggle.
    - CamperBob2 1y ago
      This is not exclusive to what I said. All this "lowering of costs" is archieved by a reduced dependence on the working class. No struggle but the class struggle. Well, to the extent you're right, the capitalists are behaving rationally. What would Marx say about that?
      - hobs 1y ago
        He woulds say that when capital can no longer reproduce itself through productive labor that system must collapse or end in revolutionary transformation(aka probably a lot of killing). But you seem to be looking for some sort of political argument on top of corrupt and twisted logic, so I don't know exactly what you're looking for here.
    - dingnuts 1y ago
      > No struggle but the class struggle. No, see, there are other struggles. The reason Marxism is fundamentally totalitarian and always devolves into a single party dictatorship is EXPLICITLY because it attempts to explain all suffering as caused by class conflict. Thus: if class is destroyed, utopia is achieved. This is of course farcical. "no struggle but x struggle" is the very the definition of a totalitarian ideology. You really think there's no struggle but class struggle? When you are suffering because a loved one has died of old age, is that struggle the class struggle? Fuck off with that totalitarian nonsense.
- CamperBob2 1y ago
  Can you blame them?
  - vkou 1y ago
    Yes.
    - CamperBob2 1y ago
      What I'm hearing is that if you're wealthy and powerful, you want as little to do with the so-called "working class" as you can possibly manage. If you expect powerful people to act in a manner that favors your interests over theirs, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, you come on here and rave about how everybody should unionize and grab their pitchforks and struggle against the machine and what-not, and then you wonder why everybody is rushing to replace you with a robot.
      - vkou 1y ago
        > If you expect powerful people to act in a manner that favors your interests over theirs, I don't know what to tell you. When they take too much, that's how they make revolutions. They only have power and wealth because we let them. > and then you wonder why everybody is rushing to replace you with a robot. Why not rush to replace them with robots, instead? What social function do the rich serve that can't be replaced with a badly-tuned LLM?
      - it_is_I 1y ago
        Are you an Indian?
      - margalabargala 1y ago
        > I mean, you come on here and rave about how everybody should unionize and grab their pitchforks and struggle against the machine and what-not, and then you wonder why everybody is rushing to replace you with a robot. That has nothing to do with it. Really. Anyone in the powerful position you describe who "earned" it, that is got themselves there somehow, is fully aware of the basis of their power and of the risk represented by it resting on workers. They will try to replace them, regardless of whether or not they are currently at that moment agitating for unionization.

saubeidl 1y ago

Or in slightly more Marxist analysis: a complete power grab by the capitalist class, who sees AI as the great liberator from its pesky dependence on the working class - who could keep the worst excesses in check so far through collective action.

cornholio 1y ago
The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of power struggles.
teaearlgraycold 1y ago
The bubble is a gamble from the bourgeois class. Even though they are taking huge risks and burning an insane amount of money on Sam Altman’s empty promises the possibility that they could stop paying out payroll is tantalizing enough to keep going for quite a while.
slowmovintarget 1y ago
Marxist analysis is essentially nonsense, though it sure feels good. Makes you tap your toes and really feel like "one of the People." But it's been bunk from the day it was penned. Jonathan Blow took this notion to task when said that the means of production are a $200 laptop you can buy at Walmart. What's really going on is industrial grade existential angst. "If my competitor trains a robot to do this job, they can run their factory 24x7, dramatically lowering their costs. If they do it and I don't, I can't compete. Therefore, I've got to do it or die." Rinse and repeat for call centers, web shops with "assistants," or software feature mills. Those CEOs and CTOs are convinced that the other guy is doing it, and their business will fail if they don't. There are a few that know better. This isn't a class struggle. It's cold-sweats-at-night fear of the future.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  > Jonathan Blow took this notion to task when said that the means of production are a $200 laptop you can buy at Walmart. That is bunk, in the current age. The means of production is a $200 laptop and a $1B nvidia cluster. > What's really going on is industrial grade existential angst. "If my competitor trains a robot to do this job, they can run their factory 24x7, dramatically lowering their costs This is not exclusive to what I said. All this "lowering of costs" is archieved by a reduced dependence on the working class. No struggle but the class struggle.
  - CamperBob2 1y ago
    This is not exclusive to what I said. All this "lowering of costs" is archieved by a reduced dependence on the working class. No struggle but the class struggle. Well, to the extent you're right, the capitalists are behaving rationally. What would Marx say about that?
    - hobs 1y ago
      He woulds say that when capital can no longer reproduce itself through productive labor that system must collapse or end in revolutionary transformation(aka probably a lot of killing). But you seem to be looking for some sort of political argument on top of corrupt and twisted logic, so I don't know exactly what you're looking for here.
  - dingnuts 1y ago
    > No struggle but the class struggle. No, see, there are other struggles. The reason Marxism is fundamentally totalitarian and always devolves into a single party dictatorship is EXPLICITLY because it attempts to explain all suffering as caused by class conflict. Thus: if class is destroyed, utopia is achieved. This is of course farcical. "no struggle but x struggle" is the very the definition of a totalitarian ideology. You really think there's no struggle but class struggle? When you are suffering because a loved one has died of old age, is that struggle the class struggle? Fuck off with that totalitarian nonsense.
CamperBob2 1y ago
Can you blame them?
- vkou 1y ago
  Yes.
  - CamperBob2 1y ago
    What I'm hearing is that if you're wealthy and powerful, you want as little to do with the so-called "working class" as you can possibly manage. If you expect powerful people to act in a manner that favors your interests over theirs, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, you come on here and rave about how everybody should unionize and grab their pitchforks and struggle against the machine and what-not, and then you wonder why everybody is rushing to replace you with a robot.
    - vkou 1y ago
      > If you expect powerful people to act in a manner that favors your interests over theirs, I don't know what to tell you. When they take too much, that's how they make revolutions. They only have power and wealth because we let them. > and then you wonder why everybody is rushing to replace you with a robot. Why not rush to replace them with robots, instead? What social function do the rich serve that can't be replaced with a badly-tuned LLM?
    - it_is_I 1y ago
      Are you an Indian?
    - margalabargala 1y ago
      > I mean, you come on here and rave about how everybody should unionize and grab their pitchforks and struggle against the machine and what-not, and then you wonder why everybody is rushing to replace you with a robot. That has nothing to do with it. Really. Anyone in the powerful position you describe who "earned" it, that is got themselves there somehow, is fully aware of the basis of their power and of the risk represented by it resting on workers. They will try to replace them, regardless of whether or not they are currently at that moment agitating for unionization.