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I've been reading through the book The Courage to be Disliked recently. I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book, but some of the ideas in the book ap

by brad0 1y ago

I've been reading through the book The Courage to be Disliked recently. I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book, but some of the ideas in the book appear in this post too. One of the concepts in the book is being comfortable with being disliked. If instead you're trying to avoid being disliked, you're effectively subject to other people's whims. When you look at it from that perspective, that's a pretty stressful experience!

ChrisLakin 1y ago
> I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book OP here. I address that in How I'd rewrite The Courage to be Disliked: https://chrislakin.blog/courage https://chrislakin.blog/courage
- Etheryte 1y ago
  I can't help but feel that these criticisms, like many others of the book, are mostly down to cultural misunderstanding. The writing style of the book is deeply Japanese and that's off-putting for many, myself included. But for some, it's to the point where the forest is missed for the trees. I've read a few translations of it and some do a better job at conveying the idea than others, but they all feel clunky without the cultural context. A good example of what I mean is your first suggestion, choosing a less triggering explanation for teleology. The idea of trigger words as we understand them, and the need to shield people from them, is not a universal cultural phenomenon. The suggestion feels a bit like visiting a country where they drive on the left side of the road and suggesting they try and drive on the right instead. Maybe the suggestion is good! But maybe not, without cultural context, the suggestion reads mostly like just asking for things to be made more familiar to you.
- brad0 1y ago
  Thanks for the link! I read through it and agree with most of your points, especially the parts about presence and separation of tasks. I personally liked the intellectual aspect of it, though I also agree that the emotional component should be there as well.
immibis 1y ago
IDK, in my experience not avoiding being disliked only results in a lot of people disliking me, but hasn't brought any gains, unless a rate limit on HN is a gain (they say I'm "too ideological", whatever that means)
- ranger_danger 1y ago
  Since you brought it up, I will put in my 2 cents, and I will try to articulate it in a constructive way, not meant as an attack at all. Fair warning, I'm American and I realize you are European, and there are obvious cultural differences that may be at play. The main problem I have with you is the attitude. Very black-and-white thinking, as if you seemingly just know everything, about everything, which I don't think can be true for anybody really. I think it makes you actually appear less intelligent, although it is obvious that you are intelligent, but it makes people think things like "pshh what does this guy know, acting like he wrote the book on this subject". But lower intelligence people are masters of black-and-white thinking, and see constructive feedback as criticism, unable to use it to improve themselves, which I don't think you want to be seen as. Of course, there are people who criticize because they're haters and get a kick out of it. Despite their hatred, their criticism may still be valid. But most of your comments IMO just seem to be very matter-of-fact, often seemingly blind to important context/nuances that make the answer not really as simple as you make it sound. And when people ask for sources, you often do not respond. I don't think I've ever seen you admit you were wrong either. In fact this is the biggest problem I have with people in general (not just you), this kind of dogmatism, the black and white thinking. To me it shows a lack of empathy and humility, often those people are also very quick to anger, and I think it shows a lack of critical thinking, as if you somehow have all the answers and are infallible, that there can be no other possible valid perspectives or opinions, I think this is a rampant problem on IRC/the Internet and indeed life in general. I also notice that a lot of your comments get downvoted, which I assume may be a combination of both unpopular opinions (or that they are stated in a way people disagree with), and just haters that will always downvote certain people. All that being said, I realize I'm not perfect either, and I have absolutely fallen trap to all these same things and more, and for anyone who I have wronged by it, I apologize.
  - 1y ago
hilux 1y ago
This thread is full of wonderful books! I had a lightning-bolt insight (one of few in my life) when listening that audiobook - the section about the shut-in. The followup book is worth reading as well. Different but related: Not Nice, by Aziz Gazipura.

by brad0 1y ago

ChrisLakin 1y ago

> I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book OP here. I address that in How I'd rewrite The Courage to be Disliked: https://chrislakin.blog/courage https://chrislakin.blog/courage

Etheryte 1y ago
I can't help but feel that these criticisms, like many others of the book, are mostly down to cultural misunderstanding. The writing style of the book is deeply Japanese and that's off-putting for many, myself included. But for some, it's to the point where the forest is missed for the trees. I've read a few translations of it and some do a better job at conveying the idea than others, but they all feel clunky without the cultural context. A good example of what I mean is your first suggestion, choosing a less triggering explanation for teleology. The idea of trigger words as we understand them, and the need to shield people from them, is not a universal cultural phenomenon. The suggestion feels a bit like visiting a country where they drive on the left side of the road and suggesting they try and drive on the right instead. Maybe the suggestion is good! But maybe not, without cultural context, the suggestion reads mostly like just asking for things to be made more familiar to you.
brad0 1y ago
Thanks for the link! I read through it and agree with most of your points, especially the parts about presence and separation of tasks. I personally liked the intellectual aspect of it, though I also agree that the emotional component should be there as well.

immibis 1y ago

IDK, in my experience not avoiding being disliked only results in a lot of people disliking me, but hasn't brought any gains, unless a rate limit on HN is a gain (they say I'm "too ideological", whatever that means)

ranger_danger 1y ago
Since you brought it up, I will put in my 2 cents, and I will try to articulate it in a constructive way, not meant as an attack at all. Fair warning, I'm American and I realize you are European, and there are obvious cultural differences that may be at play. The main problem I have with you is the attitude. Very black-and-white thinking, as if you seemingly just know everything, about everything, which I don't think can be true for anybody really. I think it makes you actually appear less intelligent, although it is obvious that you are intelligent, but it makes people think things like "pshh what does this guy know, acting like he wrote the book on this subject". But lower intelligence people are masters of black-and-white thinking, and see constructive feedback as criticism, unable to use it to improve themselves, which I don't think you want to be seen as. Of course, there are people who criticize because they're haters and get a kick out of it. Despite their hatred, their criticism may still be valid. But most of your comments IMO just seem to be very matter-of-fact, often seemingly blind to important context/nuances that make the answer not really as simple as you make it sound. And when people ask for sources, you often do not respond. I don't think I've ever seen you admit you were wrong either. In fact this is the biggest problem I have with people in general (not just you), this kind of dogmatism, the black and white thinking. To me it shows a lack of empathy and humility, often those people are also very quick to anger, and I think it shows a lack of critical thinking, as if you somehow have all the answers and are infallible, that there can be no other possible valid perspectives or opinions, I think this is a rampant problem on IRC/the Internet and indeed life in general. I also notice that a lot of your comments get downvoted, which I assume may be a combination of both unpopular opinions (or that they are stated in a way people disagree with), and just haters that will always downvote certain people. All that being said, I realize I'm not perfect either, and I have absolutely fallen trap to all these same things and more, and for anyone who I have wronged by it, I apologize.
- 1y ago

hilux 1y ago

This thread is full of wonderful books! I had a lightning-bolt insight (one of few in my life) when listening that audiobook - the section about the shut-in. The followup book is worth reading as well. Different but related: Not Nice, by Aziz Gazipura.