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> Under the guise of protecting children, the latest Chat Control proposals would require mass scanning of every message, photo, and video on a person’s device,

> Under the guise of protecting children, the latest Chat Control proposals would require mass scanning of every message, photo, and video on a person’s device, assessing these via a government-mandated database or AI model to determine whether they are permissible content or not. This is pretty terrifying, although not unexpected. Given Germany's aggressive crackdown on speech I wouldn't feel too optimistic. If the BKA is going to launch criminal investigations for calling overweight politicians fat, they're probably not going to protect any rights to private conversation. The lack of free speech laws in Europe is becoming a serious issue

IlikeKitties 1y ago
German speaking here: People here in Germany do not want to think about just how bad our constitution really is designed. We only get free speech lte, There's no fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine leading to constant prosecutorial overreach and illegal searches[0] that are later ruled illegal but with on effect and our public prosecutors are so much lacking in independence that they aren't allowed to issue european arrest warrants [1]. But I've heard people tell me with complete conviction how great our constitution is. I can't even bother arguing about it anymore. [0] And they brag about it on 60 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc [1] https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2019-05/cp190068en.pdf https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/201...
- lawn 1y ago
  > People here in Germany do not want to think about just how bad our constitution really is designed. I think that's exactly the same as in the US.
AAAAaccountAAAA 1y ago
I don't think those issues are necessarily interconnected. If I have understood it correctly, many Germans view both hateful propaganda and surveillance as tools of dictators. Surveillance of private communications obviously has a chilling effect on free speech as well, but freedom from surveillance does not imply a freedom to openly spread hate speech in public.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  Platforms like Signal don't really allow one to spread something "in public" since it's mostly 1-on-1 or small group chat. I know similar products like Telegram do have wider-range features though. Moreover, the concept of "hate speech" is fuzzy in a way that's easy to abuse. At the end of the day, if someone makes a racist joke with their friend in a one-on-one chat app I would say that's neither hate speech, nor the public distribution of said speech, but I don't think Chat Control makes this distinction.

IlikeKitties 1y ago

German speaking here: People here in Germany do not want to think about just how bad our constitution really is designed. We only get free speech lte, There's no fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine leading to constant prosecutorial overreach and illegal searches[0] that are later ruled illegal but with on effect and our public prosecutors are so much lacking in independence that they aren't allowed to issue european arrest warrants [1]. But I've heard people tell me with complete conviction how great our constitution is. I can't even bother arguing about it anymore. [0] And they brag about it on 60 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc [1] https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2019-05/cp190068en.pdf https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/201...

lawn 1y ago
> People here in Germany do not want to think about just how bad our constitution really is designed. I think that's exactly the same as in the US.

AAAAaccountAAAA 1y ago

I don't think those issues are necessarily interconnected. If I have understood it correctly, many Germans view both hateful propaganda and surveillance as tools of dictators. Surveillance of private communications obviously has a chilling effect on free speech as well, but freedom from surveillance does not imply a freedom to openly spread hate speech in public.

AlexandrB 1y ago
Platforms like Signal don't really allow one to spread something "in public" since it's mostly 1-on-1 or small group chat. I know similar products like Telegram do have wider-range features though. Moreover, the concept of "hate speech" is fuzzy in a way that's easy to abuse. At the end of the day, if someone makes a racist joke with their friend in a one-on-one chat app I would say that's neither hate speech, nor the public distribution of said speech, but I don't think Chat Control makes this distinction.