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Abundance is just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way neoliberalism with a new coat of paint. The answer to all que

by lkey 1y ago

Abundance is just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way neoliberalism with a new coat of paint. The answer to all questions is 'bust unions and environmental groups'. We've been here before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley All the Reaganite conservative institutions (https://www.abundancedc.org/speakers https://www.abundancedc.org/speakers) that are leery of fascism, but love business back this 'program'. We need a new 'New Deal', that rebuilds what was broken during these last 90 years. We need the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Perkins of this era. "Frances Perkins was not just the architect of SSA: she also proposed and implemented many of the foundational labor and safety laws1 still relied upon by the American working class. We can also thank her for the 40-hour work week, minimum wage, unemployment compensation, worker’s compensation, workplace safety, abolition of child labor, direct federal aid to the states for unemployment relief, a revitalized federal employment service, and universal health insurance. Well, except the last. We are still working on the last. " She got everything she wanted done as Labor Sec. Except for universal healthcare. And it was a great loss for everything living American every year since.

bryanlarsen 1y ago
Somebody hasn't read the book, just knee jerk reactions to it.
- lkey 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - eli_gottlieb 1y ago
    So basically you ignored the actual text in favor of the conspiracy theorist's "cui bono" about the funding structure behind the authors.
    - lkey 1y ago
      No, there's no conspiracy here. Ezra's probably a true believer, which I think is sadder honestly. There is no coordination besides shared interest in protecting capital, same as it ever was. Shared 'class interest' and 'class solidarity' if you like. Though some of these folks are probably in weird passive aggressive and catty group chats these days, like Andresson and Thiel. It is not a conspiracy to look at the super-pacs funding candidates with weird positions either. The transfers of cash are pretty open in our second gilded age. These 'third way' institutes and movements pop up every decade or so if you are paying attention. The literal 'Third Way' and 'Tea Party' movements were funded directly by some of these 'abundance' groups. But there's no 'shadowy cabal' or secret. They are open about their desires, and rely on marketing to paper over the obvious. Manufacturing consent for union breaking in Cali (Ezra didn't outright say it, but Josh Barro did) is clearly in their interest. It's also clear from many of them comments here like: 'I don't care who profits as long as there are suddenly houses' that show the 'abundance' gambit is succeeding. And to be clear, I'm not against the message 'build more housing', but these are not people you should trust. They need to prove they are serious. Their track record tells me they will bait, switch, and act as spoilers. Don't take just my word for it though! When they don't accomplish or even push for what they originally claimed their core goals are, remember this conversation.
  - mensetmanusman 1y ago
    What do the grass roots want that will result in a higher supply of living spaces?
specialist 1y ago
Is this guilt by association? eg The roster of that Abundance Festival? I've read the book. Ditto the criticisms. Heard the interviews. My "abundance" take away is a rejection of neoliberalism, austerity, Hayek, etc. That it's akin to Green New Deal, Build Back Better, etc. Am I wrong? We need 3.5m (?) new homes, mass transit, upgraded grid, 4Tw (?) of additional renewable energy generation (plus their batteries). Right? I don't care how it gets done. I don't care what labels (pejoratives) are used. I don't care who profits. I just demand it gets done, sooner than later.
- lkey 1y ago
  You could call it guilt by association, sure! But critically, the funders and speakers and membership that build a movement give life and shape to what that movement becomes. Not caring about 'means' only 'ends' or who profits strikes me as appallingly naive. You tell me, can these people build the houses you so desire? From this page https://therevolvingdoorproject.org/who-is-behind-the-growing-abundance-movement/ https://therevolvingdoorproject.org/who-is-behind-the-growin...: compare your words: "take away is a rejection of neoliberalism" to the following descriptions: "Mercatus Center, but without the libertarian brand that limits that think tank’s outreach to the left." "The group is currently headed by Julius Krein, the founder of pro-Trump publications The Journal Of American Greatness and its successor, American Affairs" "gone so far as to posit that AI is the only possible solution to climate change and that it should be powered even by fossil fuel sources." "PI is a subsidiary of the The Third Way Foundation, and it proudly proclaims itself as the “intellectual birthplace of the New Democrat and ‘Third Way’ movements.” "Chamber of Progress also used to be funded by Sam Bankman-Fried’s notorious FTX, Blockchain.com, Zillow, Twitter, and the investment firm behind WeWork, SoftBank. The group has launched a “Abundance & Affordability” project, is listed among Inclusive Abundance’s “Abundance Landscape,” and its employees are vocal in their support of the agenda." "Manhattan employs conservative provocateur and Ron DeSantis ally Chris Rufo—the progenitor of the debate over “Critical Race Theory”" "Stand Together’s Chairman and CEO, Brian Hooks, is also the President of the Charles Koch Foundation and previously served as the executive director and COO of the Mercatus Center" one of the most prominent groups opposing the Obama administration’s two key domestic policy goals: health care reform and cap and trade The philanthropy has funded “pension reform” work by right wing groups, school privatization efforts, Bari Weiss’ anti-woke university, the Niskanen Center, and sponsored both the 2024 abundance conference and the 2025 conference. Do I need to go on? These people will decide what "Abundance 'progressiveism'" actually looks like if it continues forward. They are not hiding the fact they are actually conservatives with new labels. They will republican even more if they are given voting positions. Do you think these people are on your side? Its all oil and techoncratic billionaires top to bottom.

by lkey 1y ago

bryanlarsen 1y ago

Somebody hasn't read the book, just knee jerk reactions to it.

lkey 1y ago
[flagged]
- eli_gottlieb 1y ago
  So basically you ignored the actual text in favor of the conspiracy theorist's "cui bono" about the funding structure behind the authors.
  - lkey 1y ago
    No, there's no conspiracy here. Ezra's probably a true believer, which I think is sadder honestly. There is no coordination besides shared interest in protecting capital, same as it ever was. Shared 'class interest' and 'class solidarity' if you like. Though some of these folks are probably in weird passive aggressive and catty group chats these days, like Andresson and Thiel. It is not a conspiracy to look at the super-pacs funding candidates with weird positions either. The transfers of cash are pretty open in our second gilded age. These 'third way' institutes and movements pop up every decade or so if you are paying attention. The literal 'Third Way' and 'Tea Party' movements were funded directly by some of these 'abundance' groups. But there's no 'shadowy cabal' or secret. They are open about their desires, and rely on marketing to paper over the obvious. Manufacturing consent for union breaking in Cali (Ezra didn't outright say it, but Josh Barro did) is clearly in their interest. It's also clear from many of them comments here like: 'I don't care who profits as long as there are suddenly houses' that show the 'abundance' gambit is succeeding. And to be clear, I'm not against the message 'build more housing', but these are not people you should trust. They need to prove they are serious. Their track record tells me they will bait, switch, and act as spoilers. Don't take just my word for it though! When they don't accomplish or even push for what they originally claimed their core goals are, remember this conversation.
- mensetmanusman 1y ago
  What do the grass roots want that will result in a higher supply of living spaces?

specialist 1y ago

Is this guilt by association? eg The roster of that Abundance Festival? I've read the book. Ditto the criticisms. Heard the interviews. My "abundance" take away is a rejection of neoliberalism, austerity, Hayek, etc. That it's akin to Green New Deal, Build Back Better, etc. Am I wrong? We need 3.5m (?) new homes, mass transit, upgraded grid, 4Tw (?) of additional renewable energy generation (plus their batteries). Right? I don't care how it gets done. I don't care what labels (pejoratives) are used. I don't care who profits. I just demand it gets done, sooner than later.

lkey 1y ago
You could call it guilt by association, sure! But critically, the funders and speakers and membership that build a movement give life and shape to what that movement becomes. Not caring about 'means' only 'ends' or who profits strikes me as appallingly naive. You tell me, can these people build the houses you so desire? From this page https://therevolvingdoorproject.org/who-is-behind-the-growing-abundance-movement/ https://therevolvingdoorproject.org/who-is-behind-the-growin...: compare your words: "take away is a rejection of neoliberalism" to the following descriptions: "Mercatus Center, but without the libertarian brand that limits that think tank’s outreach to the left." "The group is currently headed by Julius Krein, the founder of pro-Trump publications The Journal Of American Greatness and its successor, American Affairs" "gone so far as to posit that AI is the only possible solution to climate change and that it should be powered even by fossil fuel sources." "PI is a subsidiary of the The Third Way Foundation, and it proudly proclaims itself as the “intellectual birthplace of the New Democrat and ‘Third Way’ movements.” "Chamber of Progress also used to be funded by Sam Bankman-Fried’s notorious FTX, Blockchain.com, Zillow, Twitter, and the investment firm behind WeWork, SoftBank. The group has launched a “Abundance & Affordability” project, is listed among Inclusive Abundance’s “Abundance Landscape,” and its employees are vocal in their support of the agenda." "Manhattan employs conservative provocateur and Ron DeSantis ally Chris Rufo—the progenitor of the debate over “Critical Race Theory”" "Stand Together’s Chairman and CEO, Brian Hooks, is also the President of the Charles Koch Foundation and previously served as the executive director and COO of the Mercatus Center" one of the most prominent groups opposing the Obama administration’s two key domestic policy goals: health care reform and cap and trade The philanthropy has funded “pension reform” work by right wing groups, school privatization efforts, Bari Weiss’ anti-woke university, the Niskanen Center, and sponsored both the 2024 abundance conference and the 2025 conference. Do I need to go on? These people will decide what "Abundance 'progressiveism'" actually looks like if it continues forward. They are not hiding the fact they are actually conservatives with new labels. They will republican even more if they are given voting positions. Do you think these people are on your side? Its all oil and techoncratic billionaires top to bottom.