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I don’t use Twitter, and I abhor white nationalism as much as any other kind of genetic population-based supremacy movement. So you’re at least wrong about me.

I don’t use Twitter, and I abhor white nationalism as much as any other kind of genetic population-based supremacy movement. So you’re at least wrong about me. Like DHH, though, I am staunchly anti-multiculturalism. This has nothing to do with genetics or identity groups; it has everything to do with beliefs. Search your own convictions, and you’ll likely find that you feel the same way as DHH and I: you likely want your neighbors to not be ardent believers, for example, that women are inherently 2nd class citizens. See? We’re already on the same page. You’ve just been misled into thinking that anti-multiculturalism is somehow related to the poison of one specific identity-based movement (white supremacy). You should attempt to discover how and why you’ve been duped, and by whom.

archagon 1y ago
Except the movements DHH joyfully writes about are ardently white nationalist and support things like forceful “remigration” for non-whites. There may be a place for the idea that “immigrants are Brits too, but we to improve cultural integration.” This is not that at all.
- periodjet 1y ago
  I haven’t seen anyone credible mentioning anything about “non-whites”. That would definitely be grounds for concern, but so far it has turned out to be a strawman in these discussions.
  - jakelazaroff 1y ago
    As I showed in the article, there's literally no other possible good faith interpretation of his "about a third native Brits" figure.
    - angoragoats 1y ago
      It’s strange how when we point out that DHH is literally pointing to specific ethnicities when he uses the term “native Brit,” the people coming to his defense like @periodjet mysteriously stop responding.
      - periodjet 1y ago
        You’re reading too much into my temporary absence. ;) I think you both are engaging in an extremely uncharitable reading of DHH’s “native Brit” phrase. Hopefully he will clarify more what he means in the future so that we won’t have to guess. In my opinion, though, he is referring to culture and not engaging in some kind of genetics-based argument as you seem to be implying. We’ll see!
        angoragoats 1y ago
        How can linking the phrase “native Brit” directly to a Wikipedia article about ethnicity be interpreted as anything other than having to do with genetics?
        angoragoats 1y ago
        Also, to respond more directly to one thing you said: > Hopefully he will clarify more what he means in the future so that we won’t have to guess No one’s guessing here other than you. DHH has been quite clear in what he’s referring to, and if you don’t see that you either haven’t been reading the responses carefully from me and others, or you are being willfully ignorant.
        periodjet 1y ago
        No, he hasn’t. You’re just engaging in motivated reasoning and you haven’t realized it. You also haven’t realized that you’re part of a tiny minority with fringe beliefs, so don’t be so ruffled when you receive level-headed pushback. Goodbye.
        angoragoats 1y ago
        Bye. Thanks for not responding to any of my questions, and instead only responding to the posts where I call you out for seemingly defending a self-admitted racist. I sincerely hope that in the future you can fix your heart. Edit: just saw the comment in your profile about wanting karma <= 0. Nice trolling! I’ll keep the rest of this post up to remind future me not to engage with those who aren’t serious.
  - archagon 1y ago
    Unfortunately, I didn't save the receipts myself, but this matches what I've seen float by on social media: https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/total-remigration-anti-migrant-narratives-targeting-the-uk/ https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/total-remigrati... "Britain for whites" and "total remigration" seem to be major throughlines for this movement.
  - fragmede 1y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45455668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45455668
angoragoats 1y ago
> I don’t use Twitter, and I abhor white nationalism as much as any other kind of genetic population-based supremacy movement. So you’re at least wrong about me. I never claimed that you use Twitter or that you were one of the "Twitter is not real life" people I was referring to. > Like DHH, though, I am staunchly anti-multiculturalism. This has nothing to do with genetics or identity groups; it has everything to do with beliefs. Search your own convictions, and you’ll likely find that you feel the same way as DHH and I: you likely want your neighbors to not be ardent believers, for example, that women are inherently 2nd class citizens. Beliefs are held by individuals, not by cultures. To conflate the two sounds dangerously close to racism to me. So no, I don't feel the same way as you or DHH about this. It might be true that I don't want my neighbors to believe that women are 2nd class citizens, but there are plenty of people who believe that anyway in my own culture, so I don't see the this point and multiculturalism as being connected. The logical thing to do in this case is to espouse anti-mysogynism, not anti-multiculturalism. > You’ve just been misled into thinking that anti-multiculturalism is somehow related to the poison of one specific identity-based movement (white supremacy). No, I was not misled into that; we are discussing DHH here, and I think it's clear from his own words that DHH is referring to some sort of ethnic nationalism. The evidence is only a single click away from his "As I remember London" blog post, if you haven't seen it yet: the very first link in the article (anchor text "no longer full of native Brits") links to the "Ethnic groups in London" wikipedia entry[1]. So he is equating being a "native Brit" with being of a certain ethnic group. Do you share my belief that "ethnic group" and "identity group" are terms that are reasonably close in meaning? If so, then by your own admission, DHH is not espousing anti-multiculturalism, and instead is advocating for some sort of ethno-nationalism. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London

archagon 1y ago

Except the movements DHH joyfully writes about are ardently white nationalist and support things like forceful “remigration” for non-whites. There may be a place for the idea that “immigrants are Brits too, but we to improve cultural integration.” This is not that at all.

periodjet 1y ago
I haven’t seen anyone credible mentioning anything about “non-whites”. That would definitely be grounds for concern, but so far it has turned out to be a strawman in these discussions.
- jakelazaroff 1y ago
  As I showed in the article, there's literally no other possible good faith interpretation of his "about a third native Brits" figure.
  - angoragoats 1y ago
    It’s strange how when we point out that DHH is literally pointing to specific ethnicities when he uses the term “native Brit,” the people coming to his defense like @periodjet mysteriously stop responding.
    - periodjet 1y ago
      You’re reading too much into my temporary absence. ;) I think you both are engaging in an extremely uncharitable reading of DHH’s “native Brit” phrase. Hopefully he will clarify more what he means in the future so that we won’t have to guess. In my opinion, though, he is referring to culture and not engaging in some kind of genetics-based argument as you seem to be implying. We’ll see!
      - angoragoats 1y ago
        How can linking the phrase “native Brit” directly to a Wikipedia article about ethnicity be interpreted as anything other than having to do with genetics?
      - angoragoats 1y ago
        Also, to respond more directly to one thing you said: > Hopefully he will clarify more what he means in the future so that we won’t have to guess No one’s guessing here other than you. DHH has been quite clear in what he’s referring to, and if you don’t see that you either haven’t been reading the responses carefully from me and others, or you are being willfully ignorant.
        periodjet 1y ago
        No, he hasn’t. You’re just engaging in motivated reasoning and you haven’t realized it. You also haven’t realized that you’re part of a tiny minority with fringe beliefs, so don’t be so ruffled when you receive level-headed pushback. Goodbye.
        angoragoats 1y ago
        Bye. Thanks for not responding to any of my questions, and instead only responding to the posts where I call you out for seemingly defending a self-admitted racist. I sincerely hope that in the future you can fix your heart. Edit: just saw the comment in your profile about wanting karma <= 0. Nice trolling! I’ll keep the rest of this post up to remind future me not to engage with those who aren’t serious.
- archagon 1y ago
  Unfortunately, I didn't save the receipts myself, but this matches what I've seen float by on social media: https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/total-remigration-anti-migrant-narratives-targeting-the-uk/ https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/total-remigrati... "Britain for whites" and "total remigration" seem to be major throughlines for this movement.
- fragmede 1y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45455668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45455668

angoragoats 1y ago

> I don’t use Twitter, and I abhor white nationalism as much as any other kind of genetic population-based supremacy movement. So you’re at least wrong about me. I never claimed that you use Twitter or that you were one of the "Twitter is not real life" people I was referring to. > Like DHH, though, I am staunchly anti-multiculturalism. This has nothing to do with genetics or identity groups; it has everything to do with beliefs. Search your own convictions, and you’ll likely find that you feel the same way as DHH and I: you likely want your neighbors to not be ardent believers, for example, that women are inherently 2nd class citizens. Beliefs are held by individuals, not by cultures. To conflate the two sounds dangerously close to racism to me. So no, I don't feel the same way as you or DHH about this. It might be true that I don't want my neighbors to believe that women are 2nd class citizens, but there are plenty of people who believe that anyway in my own culture, so I don't see the this point and multiculturalism as being connected. The logical thing to do in this case is to espouse anti-mysogynism, not anti-multiculturalism. > You’ve just been misled into thinking that anti-multiculturalism is somehow related to the poison of one specific identity-based movement (white supremacy). No, I was not misled into that; we are discussing DHH here, and I think it's clear from his own words that DHH is referring to some sort of ethnic nationalism. The evidence is only a single click away from his "As I remember London" blog post, if you haven't seen it yet: the very first link in the article (anchor text "no longer full of native Brits") links to the "Ethnic groups in London" wikipedia entry[1]. So he is equating being a "native Brit" with being of a certain ethnic group. Do you share my belief that "ethnic group" and "identity group" are terms that are reasonably close in meaning? If so, then by your own admission, DHH is not espousing anti-multiculturalism, and instead is advocating for some sort of ethno-nationalism. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London