8 ms·

Minimum Viable Movie: How I Made a Feature-Length Film for $0

98 points by kadavy 14y ago

steffes 14y ago
Really refreshing to see how people use their resources in another industry. I'm glad to hear that he got inspiration from the hacker community at SXSW.I haven't watched the movie yet, but I have it bookmarked for this weekend.
anigbrowl 14y ago
I have about a decade of experience in low- and no-budget filmmaking, including 9 feature films and too many shorts to count. Technology is a wonderful thing, as is the fact that people are willing to pitch in and led equipment, talent, and locations for nothing. But... a) if you work this way (with actors doubling up as crew and so on), then you say goodbye to QA. Although there are clear improvements from project to project the quality is...not good. I don't want to go through a laundry list of critcisms. But I suggest ditching the DV camera, getting a DSLR, and learning to shoot at 24p with a 1/50 shutter speed. The cost and time savings of not using DV tapes alone will cover the food bill for your shoot. b) "I raised $2,000 using Kickstarter." That's a very small budget, but it's a hell of a lot bigger than $0, no? This sort of bait-and-switch marketing technique only works if you have a commercial release. Your budget is part of your marketing plan, and you can only use this trick once. OK, so the point is that the filmmaker did it with $0 of his own cash. There's a thin line between creatively financing your project on a shoestring, and coming off as a freeloader. c) "If this is what I did with $2,000 imagine what I could do with $2,000,000." Production companies in Hollywood hear this pitch approximately weekly. The response (among themselves, not to you) is 'I'm perfectly capable of wasting my own money.' What you need to focus on now is leveraging the achievements so far into a $20,000 budget (enough to pay a minimum wage to a small crew and cast), and having a plan to generate a similar amount of revenue. That will open doors to larger things.
- lifeisstillgood 14y ago
  As someone interested in making documentaries on a shoestring - I think it is an intereting educational and interview tool - are there specific products you would point me at, community film groups - are they any good? Just basic 'mistakes not to make' list would be very appreciated - top of the list is which camera to (not) get and whether OSS can handle non linear editing edit : and, rude of me not to ask first time, do you have links to any of your 9(!) feature films - would be interested and the hackernewser links don't seem to take me there.
  - anigbrowl 14y ago
    are there specific products you would point me at, community film groups - are they any good? Just basic 'mistakes not to make' list would be very appreciated - top of the list is which camera to (not) get and whether OSS can handle non linear editing I personally like Canon DSLRs. The current Digital Rebel series produce nice images in combination with a tool like Magic Lantern for well under $100. If you can afford a 7D or %d the image quality is marginally better, the ergonomics significantly so. But products from Nikon are also good, as are the Micro 4:3 units from Panasonic. Sony's I'm not familiar with, but have heard others speak highly of them. Certainly check out film production courses at commnity colleges in your area - you may be able to learn a great deal for relatively few $, not to mention making food contacts. Online, good resources are http://prolost.com/ http://prolost.com/ and http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/ http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/ are two of the best resources, but also check http://rebelsguide.com/forum/ http://rebelsguide.com/forum/. Stu Maschwitz's 'Rebel's Guide' is a really excellent starting point in book form, I wish I'd had it when I got started: http://astore.amazon.com/prolost-20/detail/0321413644 http://astore.amazon.com/prolost-20/detail/0321413644 The Guerilla Filmmaker's handbook is also excellent: http://www.amazon.com/Guerilla-Makers-Handbook-American-Edition/dp/0826414648 http://www.amazon.com/Guerilla-Makers-Handbook-American-Edit... Join a film library or filmmaker society if you are a decent sized city, as you'll save a fortune on seeking out and buying books on technique, financing, contracts, etc. I personally don't rate open source audio/video editing products very highly. If you're on Mac, then you have to seriously consider final Cut, but Adobe sells the most comprehensive suite of tools. (Disclosure: I test for them.) You need to understand something about motion graphics even if all you're doing is putting up titles and evening out lighting/color disparities in your footage. You can pick up books on Adobe Premiere and After Effects for pennies - no need for the most current version, learn the basics from a book that's a version or two out of date. You can get demo versions of the Creative Suite software for free, and get full working versions quite cheap if you are enrolled somewhere as a student (same is true for competitors of course). If you have a budget then treat them as a line-item expense. If not, then you can go looking for an, ah, evaluation copy. Don't try to become expert in everything, but become conversant with the basics so you can have meaningful conversations with people who are more experienced. BTW, as you're in the UK, shoot 25p rather than 24p. It's easy to convert later for other markets if necessary, but naturally you want something that works with your local TV standards. The Guerilla film guide has more of a UK focus, which may be helpful for you. edit : and, rude of me not to ask first time, do you have links to any of your 9(!) feature films - would be interested and the hackernewser links don't seem to take me there. Sure, here's a few. Please note that they're not 'my' films; they're films on which I worked as crew or cast, and/or in which I had a silent producer role. Most of them are pretty bad :-) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0491095/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0491095/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460985/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460985/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0968738/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0968738/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0834904/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0834904/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0860837/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0860837/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1762380/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1762380/
- bengl3rt 14y ago
  You worked on Voyeur. Cool! I know the band that did (some of) the soundtrack. (http://www.karmacoda.com http://www.karmacoda.com) I always wish I had time to be involved in other peoples' film productions, specifically on the acting and the sound side. This was a very inspiring read.
  - anigbrowl 14y ago
    Ha, small world. Believe it or not, I haven't seen it - couldn't attend the screening for some reason, and never got a copy of the film on DVD. It happens, I've only seen about half the shorts I've worked on. Although I would kinda like to see voyeur because I have an action scene in it where a (fictional) cop grabs me and throws me up against a police car. I mean that literally - I had bruises for days.
- billswift 14y ago
  I've never done any type of film making. I suspect from my attempts at photography and writing (and my reading about them), that the first, most cost effective investment would be hiring a professional editor to put the final film together.
finkin1 14y ago
There's a great indie film making community in Fairfield, IA. Have you ever been there? http://theskyisfree.com http://theskyisfree.com is an example of something out of Fairfield - also made on basically 0 budget.
- finkin1 14y ago
  Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHxUf2hHjUk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHxUf2hHjUk
- kephra 14y ago
  Tell me who I am Tell me what to know and where to go .. I'll follow Lead us to the lie You gave your gift now we believe ... its up there The sky is free and we are free
  - finkin1 14y ago
    :D!
kephra 14y ago
I have not seen this movie (yet) - But there is an other film that was made on a shoestring budget (ca$5000) called Donkey. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1595388/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1595388/ This film has the feeling and quality of early Quentin Tarantino films, and a plot that is much better than 90% of major US films.
- cpeterso 14y ago
  Primer (2004) is surprisingly good indie film made for just $7000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_%28film%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_%28film%29
  - trafficlight 14y ago
    Primer is probably my all-time favorite. I'm in love with the whole thing. The story, the acting, the soundtrack, all phenomenal for what is basically the work of one guy. The best part, though, is the feeling that you could go out to your garage and build something amazing.
    - joeavella 14y ago
      What ever happend to that dude? Shane Carruth? Form the looks of his imdb he hasn't done much. Too bad :(
      - trafficlight 14y ago
        From what I've heard, he's working on a new movie called A Topiary. I assume he's doing it the same way as Primer, so it'll probably be a while.
        cpeterso 14y ago
        io9 has some (not too spoiler-y) info about A Topiary from 2010: http://io9.com/5569986/more-details-about-shane-carruths-next-mind+bending-film http://io9.com/5569986/more-details-about-shane-carruths-nex...
iuguy 14y ago
Action City Bathroom[1] is brilliantly funny (at least IMHO). [1] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fqC9iKpZns http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fqC9iKpZns
- joeavella 14y ago
  Thanks iuguy! Glad you enjoyed it.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
kfk 14y ago
Could somebody take this further and build up a studio that seeds those kind of movies? I mean, look at Primer (posted here, thanks!): a budget of 7000$ and a 424000$ revenue. Even if they had a margin of 10% on that, 42000$ is still a great payback. I was reading on HN of a guy proposing budgets of 25k per movie. That means 4 movies with 100 k. Is somebody doing this? Why nothing like this comes up or more mainstream? Thoughts?
- marquis 14y ago
  I think filmmaking and other pursuits like music will continue to bring great authors without any community funding. Every great artist just got started with limited means and their work shows for itself. A good artist doesn't need a few thousand dollars to get started, they just get started, and that initial work is either good enough for the artist to move forward or it isn't. Peter Jackson started his first film in his backyard with his friends on the weekend, and through sheer persistence just kept going with it long enough, and with interesting enough ultra-low budget footage that he got a grant to finish it, based on the quality of his work. Every other successful artist I know just had the hustle built in: the act of producing. You can't pay people to find out if they are going to make great work. It's there or it's not.
  - kfk 14y ago
    I don't agree with that. I mean, let's be practical here, movies are there to make money. If a movie has a budget of 25 k, you need ~50 k people willing to pay 1 euro to watch it to make already a decent margin. Then, after a while, you sell downloads withouth DRM and you make another nice profit. Other than that, a studio should offer: actors easy to reach to (maybe on a wage?), shooting gear, special effects experts, etc. Lots of this things would lower the entry barriers for movies a LOT.
    - joeavella 14y ago
      I agree, but I'm trying to do this more from an angle of a production company than a studio. This first movie is to get the ball rolling, use it as leverage to raise money for the next, stay lean to make a profit and the get bigger and better each time. If it would eventually lead to a 'studio' set up as opposed to a 'production company' great! But right now I'm focusing on making great movies.
mikle 14y ago
Whenever I see people claiming they did something for 0$ I find it disingenuous. It reminds me of the old JWZ quote: > Linux is only free if your time has no value
- joeavella 14y ago
  JWZ?
  - billswift 14y ago
    Jamie Zawinski, one of the original Netscape developers.
- batista 14y ago
  Your time investment goes without saying. It's the other expenses that matter. People don't go around saying: "this latte cost me $48 dollars -- $8 dollars for the latte and 1 hour of my time ordering and drinking it at Starbucks". Not to mention that people also have free time. It's not as if you're making money when you are off of work (except if you have a passive income scheme, in which case you keep making them even while you go around shooting a movie).
  - mikle 14y ago
    My point is not that time is money. My point is that instead of the title talking about his movie his selling point is that is cost him 0$. Well that's fine and all but that is not impressive to me.

98 points by kadavy 14y ago

Really refreshing to see how people use their resources in another industry. I'm glad to hear that he got inspiration from the hacker community at SXSW.I haven't watched the movie yet, but I have it bookmarked for this weekend.

anigbrowl 14y ago

I have about a decade of experience in low- and no-budget filmmaking, including 9 feature films and too many shorts to count. Technology is a wonderful thing, as is the fact that people are willing to pitch in and led equipment, talent, and locations for nothing. But... a) if you work this way (with actors doubling up as crew and so on), then you say goodbye to QA. Although there are clear improvements from project to project the quality is...not good. I don't want to go through a laundry list of critcisms. But I suggest ditching the DV camera, getting a DSLR, and learning to shoot at 24p with a 1/50 shutter speed. The cost and time savings of not using DV tapes alone will cover the food bill for your shoot. b) "I raised $2,000 using Kickstarter." That's a very small budget, but it's a hell of a lot bigger than $0, no? This sort of bait-and-switch marketing technique only works if you have a commercial release. Your budget is part of your marketing plan, and you can only use this trick once. OK, so the point is that the filmmaker did it with $0 of his own cash. There's a thin line between creatively financing your project on a shoestring, and coming off as a freeloader. c) "If this is what I did with $2,000 imagine what I could do with $2,000,000." Production companies in Hollywood hear this pitch approximately weekly. The response (among themselves, not to you) is 'I'm perfectly capable of wasting my own money.' What you need to focus on now is leveraging the achievements so far into a $20,000 budget (enough to pay a minimum wage to a small crew and cast), and having a plan to generate a similar amount of revenue. That will open doors to larger things.

lifeisstillgood 14y ago
As someone interested in making documentaries on a shoestring - I think it is an intereting educational and interview tool - are there specific products you would point me at, community film groups - are they any good? Just basic 'mistakes not to make' list would be very appreciated - top of the list is which camera to (not) get and whether OSS can handle non linear editing edit : and, rude of me not to ask first time, do you have links to any of your 9(!) feature films - would be interested and the hackernewser links don't seem to take me there.
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  are there specific products you would point me at, community film groups - are they any good? Just basic 'mistakes not to make' list would be very appreciated - top of the list is which camera to (not) get and whether OSS can handle non linear editing I personally like Canon DSLRs. The current Digital Rebel series produce nice images in combination with a tool like Magic Lantern for well under $100. If you can afford a 7D or %d the image quality is marginally better, the ergonomics significantly so. But products from Nikon are also good, as are the Micro 4:3 units from Panasonic. Sony's I'm not familiar with, but have heard others speak highly of them. Certainly check out film production courses at commnity colleges in your area - you may be able to learn a great deal for relatively few $, not to mention making food contacts. Online, good resources are http://prolost.com/ http://prolost.com/ and http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/ http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/ are two of the best resources, but also check http://rebelsguide.com/forum/ http://rebelsguide.com/forum/. Stu Maschwitz's 'Rebel's Guide' is a really excellent starting point in book form, I wish I'd had it when I got started: http://astore.amazon.com/prolost-20/detail/0321413644 http://astore.amazon.com/prolost-20/detail/0321413644 The Guerilla Filmmaker's handbook is also excellent: http://www.amazon.com/Guerilla-Makers-Handbook-American-Edition/dp/0826414648 http://www.amazon.com/Guerilla-Makers-Handbook-American-Edit... Join a film library or filmmaker society if you are a decent sized city, as you'll save a fortune on seeking out and buying books on technique, financing, contracts, etc. I personally don't rate open source audio/video editing products very highly. If you're on Mac, then you have to seriously consider final Cut, but Adobe sells the most comprehensive suite of tools. (Disclosure: I test for them.) You need to understand something about motion graphics even if all you're doing is putting up titles and evening out lighting/color disparities in your footage. You can pick up books on Adobe Premiere and After Effects for pennies - no need for the most current version, learn the basics from a book that's a version or two out of date. You can get demo versions of the Creative Suite software for free, and get full working versions quite cheap if you are enrolled somewhere as a student (same is true for competitors of course). If you have a budget then treat them as a line-item expense. If not, then you can go looking for an, ah, evaluation copy. Don't try to become expert in everything, but become conversant with the basics so you can have meaningful conversations with people who are more experienced. BTW, as you're in the UK, shoot 25p rather than 24p. It's easy to convert later for other markets if necessary, but naturally you want something that works with your local TV standards. The Guerilla film guide has more of a UK focus, which may be helpful for you. edit : and, rude of me not to ask first time, do you have links to any of your 9(!) feature films - would be interested and the hackernewser links don't seem to take me there. Sure, here's a few. Please note that they're not 'my' films; they're films on which I worked as crew or cast, and/or in which I had a silent producer role. Most of them are pretty bad :-) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0491095/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0491095/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460985/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460985/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0968738/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0968738/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0834904/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0834904/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0860837/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0860837/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1762380/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1762380/
bengl3rt 14y ago
You worked on Voyeur. Cool! I know the band that did (some of) the soundtrack. (http://www.karmacoda.com http://www.karmacoda.com) I always wish I had time to be involved in other peoples' film productions, specifically on the acting and the sound side. This was a very inspiring read.
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  Ha, small world. Believe it or not, I haven't seen it - couldn't attend the screening for some reason, and never got a copy of the film on DVD. It happens, I've only seen about half the shorts I've worked on. Although I would kinda like to see voyeur because I have an action scene in it where a (fictional) cop grabs me and throws me up against a police car. I mean that literally - I had bruises for days.
billswift 14y ago
I've never done any type of film making. I suspect from my attempts at photography and writing (and my reading about them), that the first, most cost effective investment would be hiring a professional editor to put the final film together.

finkin1 14y ago

There's a great indie film making community in Fairfield, IA. Have you ever been there? http://theskyisfree.com http://theskyisfree.com is an example of something out of Fairfield - also made on basically 0 budget.

finkin1 14y ago
Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHxUf2hHjUk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHxUf2hHjUk
kephra 14y ago
Tell me who I am Tell me what to know and where to go .. I'll follow Lead us to the lie You gave your gift now we believe ... its up there The sky is free and we are free
- finkin1 14y ago
  :D!

kephra 14y ago

I have not seen this movie (yet) - But there is an other film that was made on a shoestring budget (ca$5000) called Donkey. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1595388/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1595388/ This film has the feeling and quality of early Quentin Tarantino films, and a plot that is much better than 90% of major US films.

cpeterso 14y ago
Primer (2004) is surprisingly good indie film made for just $7000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_%28film%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_%28film%29
- trafficlight 14y ago
  Primer is probably my all-time favorite. I'm in love with the whole thing. The story, the acting, the soundtrack, all phenomenal for what is basically the work of one guy. The best part, though, is the feeling that you could go out to your garage and build something amazing.
  - joeavella 14y ago
    What ever happend to that dude? Shane Carruth? Form the looks of his imdb he hasn't done much. Too bad :(
    - trafficlight 14y ago
      From what I've heard, he's working on a new movie called A Topiary. I assume he's doing it the same way as Primer, so it'll probably be a while.
      - cpeterso 14y ago
        io9 has some (not too spoiler-y) info about A Topiary from 2010: http://io9.com/5569986/more-details-about-shane-carruths-next-mind+bending-film http://io9.com/5569986/more-details-about-shane-carruths-nex...

iuguy 14y ago

Action City Bathroom[1] is brilliantly funny (at least IMHO). [1] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fqC9iKpZns http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fqC9iKpZns

joeavella 14y ago
Thanks iuguy! Glad you enjoyed it.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

kfk 14y ago

Could somebody take this further and build up a studio that seeds those kind of movies? I mean, look at Primer (posted here, thanks!): a budget of 7000$ and a 424000$ revenue. Even if they had a margin of 10% on that, 42000$ is still a great payback. I was reading on HN of a guy proposing budgets of 25k per movie. That means 4 movies with 100 k. Is somebody doing this? Why nothing like this comes up or more mainstream? Thoughts?

marquis 14y ago
I think filmmaking and other pursuits like music will continue to bring great authors without any community funding. Every great artist just got started with limited means and their work shows for itself. A good artist doesn't need a few thousand dollars to get started, they just get started, and that initial work is either good enough for the artist to move forward or it isn't. Peter Jackson started his first film in his backyard with his friends on the weekend, and through sheer persistence just kept going with it long enough, and with interesting enough ultra-low budget footage that he got a grant to finish it, based on the quality of his work. Every other successful artist I know just had the hustle built in: the act of producing. You can't pay people to find out if they are going to make great work. It's there or it's not.
- kfk 14y ago
  I don't agree with that. I mean, let's be practical here, movies are there to make money. If a movie has a budget of 25 k, you need ~50 k people willing to pay 1 euro to watch it to make already a decent margin. Then, after a while, you sell downloads withouth DRM and you make another nice profit. Other than that, a studio should offer: actors easy to reach to (maybe on a wage?), shooting gear, special effects experts, etc. Lots of this things would lower the entry barriers for movies a LOT.
  - joeavella 14y ago
    I agree, but I'm trying to do this more from an angle of a production company than a studio. This first movie is to get the ball rolling, use it as leverage to raise money for the next, stay lean to make a profit and the get bigger and better each time. If it would eventually lead to a 'studio' set up as opposed to a 'production company' great! But right now I'm focusing on making great movies.

mikle 14y ago

Whenever I see people claiming they did something for 0$ I find it disingenuous. It reminds me of the old JWZ quote: > Linux is only free if your time has no value

joeavella 14y ago
JWZ?
- billswift 14y ago
  Jamie Zawinski, one of the original Netscape developers.
batista 14y ago
Your time investment goes without saying. It's the other expenses that matter. People don't go around saying: "this latte cost me $48 dollars -- $8 dollars for the latte and 1 hour of my time ordering and drinking it at Starbucks". Not to mention that people also have free time. It's not as if you're making money when you are off of work (except if you have a passive income scheme, in which case you keep making them even while you go around shooting a movie).
- mikle 14y ago
  My point is not that time is money. My point is that instead of the title talking about his movie his selling point is that is cost him 0$. Well that's fine and all but that is not impressive to me.