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Sadly I think you are mistaken to paint it as an irrational Israel lashing out - that's too generous. I think it's quite the opposite - there has been a very c

Sadly I think you are mistaken to paint it as an irrational Israel lashing out - that's too generous. I think it's quite the opposite - there has been a very clear, cold, calculated strategy - which is to use the conflict as an cover for doing what some in the government have always wanted to do ( and been quite open about it ) - which is to create a greater Israel - drive out all Palestinians from the river to the sea ( Gaza and West Bank ), as well as push to the river in the north into Lebanon and take more of Syria. Those in government understand the potential reputation loss - but see that as temporary and something that can be managed under the protection of the US, while viewing the gain of territory as permanent.

lossolo 1y ago
This, for Israel it was a perfect pretext. Netanyahu financed Hamas through Qatar for years because he knew that Hamas is a destructive force for Palestinians and their struggle for nationhood. It was a cold, cynical decision. He exploited the anger and emotions of the people after October 7th to justify what he is doing now.
- dlahoda 1y ago
  any links for research proving you state?
  - frm88 1y ago
    John Oliver did an In-depth analysis complete with sources in his latest Last Week Tonight. It's titled Netanyahu. Go, watch it, it is illuminating.
    - VonTum 1y ago
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Bwix9IjOE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Bwix9IjOE
    - names_are_hard 1y ago
      Unfortunately it's not available to me on YouTube: Video unavailable The uploader has not made this video available in your country :-(
      - bccdee 1y ago
        If you're willing to invest ten minutes and a tenth of a cent, you can spin up a virtual server in an American server farm and set up a SOCKS proxy with `ssh -D 8080 -nNT <user>@<host>`. Then in the Network Settings dialogue (at the bottom of General Settings), Firefox will let you proxy your traffic through it.
      - RunSet 1y ago
        You can download with yt-dlp over tor by starting the tor browser bundle and then calling yt-dlp like this: yt-dlp --proxy socks5://127.0.0.1:9150 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCh5WrNgydw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCh5WrNgydw
        yubblegum 1y ago
        Heads up for anyone who assumes (like I did) that that is the URL for the John Oliver video, it is not. OP should have used $URL for his example.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - lossolo 1y ago
    In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that "In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas." He continued saying "Gaza was on the brink of collapse because they had no resources, they had no money, and the PA refused to give Hamas any money. Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza." At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas ... This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." Gershon Hacohen, former commander of the 7th Armored Brigade and an associate of Benjamin Netanyahu, said in 2019 in an interview: “Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas
    - jijijijij 1y ago
      I presume boosting Hamas over leftist/revolutionary groups meant less support for Palestinian liberation within the population of Europe and maybe in part the US. The reality of religious fundamentalism in Gaza is heavily exploited in Israeli propaganda, it's an effective deterrent still. If Gaza was held by an organization like the YPG/YPJ (Kurdish autonomy regions) Israel would have had far more, earlier resistance from western governments/populations, I think.
      - tguvot 1y ago
        hamas started as islamic charity/community support organization. this is when Israel supported it. when it became political and moved to terrorism - israel stopped supporting it. we are talking early 80s here.
  - yubblegum 1y ago
    Swiss Policy Research has excellent documentation on the promotion of Hamas in Gaza by Israel: https://swprs.org/2023/10/20/israel-palestine-overview/ https://swprs.org/2023/10/20/israel-palestine-overview/
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Netanyahu financed Hamas through Qatar for years because he knew that Hamas is a destructive force for Palestinians and their struggle for nationhood It's probably as simple as Netanyahu's branded himself as Israel's protector, and if Palestine were to become less threatening, his political prospects sink.
  - walleeee 1y ago
    No, it's probably not that simple. His self-interested maneuvering is without doubt part of the story, but it's very unlikely to be all of it.
- heisgone 1y ago
  It was too perfect. To the point where the stand down order stories are believable.
- yubblegum 1y ago
  I've come around to the possibility that there is a lot more here under the surface than what we general public/plebs are aware of. Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood. MB itself is the poster child of a movement hijacked by Western spook agencies. They want a heroic victory for MB because the West knows there are going to be numerous billions of Muslims and they can't kill them all so the best thing is to 'control' the religion as they own and run MB. October 7 completely undermined the non-MB resistance. Hamas jumped the gun, Israel 'stood down', and the axis of resistance was caught like deers in a headlight. They have been 'reacting' ever since and have been losing every step of the way. Now the question is: Is Qatar/MB upset about all this? ...
piltdownman 1y ago
Here's a thought experiment to underline that, in case there's any confusion. Q. How many times did any Countries hold islamic-only real-estate expos in Mosques for the former and future homes and territories of Jewish peoples either already dispossessed or planned to be dispossessed due to fundamentalist islamic occupation? _Zero_ Q. How many times did any Countries held jewish-only real-estate expos in Synagogues for the former homes and territories of Muslim peoples either already dispossessed or planned to be dispossessed due to zionist occupation? _Countless_ https://lapublicpress.org/2024/09/israeli-real-estate-fair-housing-investigation/ https://lapublicpress.org/2024/09/israeli-real-estate-fair-h... https://halifax.citynews.ca/2024/03/07/palestine-is-not-for-sale-israeli-event-promoting-west-bank-property-draws-critics/ https://halifax.citynews.ca/2024/03/07/palestine-is-not-for-... https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-drawing-protests-in-other-cities-expo-on-israeli-real-estate-nixed-in-brooklyn/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-drawing-protests-in-othe... https://www.laconverse.com/en/articles/les-coulisses-dun-salon-de-limmobilier-offrant-des-biens-en-terre-palestinienne https://www.laconverse.com/en/articles/les-coulisses-dun-sal... They're now at the point where they're paying their contractors $1,500 a house demolished, and constantly inciting violent engagement so as to get the IDF involved and sanitise the area - most notably near the supposed humanitarian relief distribution points they're so fond of double-tap bombing. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250630-shocking-israeli-report-killing-deemed-acceptable-as-contractors-paid-1500-for-each-home-demolished-in-gaza/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250630-shocking-israeli-... N.B. Israel is now concentrating on the remaining medical facilities, and has carried out at least 17 attacks on or in the vicinity of healthcare facilities in Gaza City since 16 September. (https://www.bmj.com/content/391/bmj.r2078 https://www.bmj.com/content/391/bmj.r2078) Three healthcare facilities—Al Quds Hospital, Al Rantisi Children’s Hospital, and the Medical Relief Health Centre—have all been directly hit, while further strikes were recorded in the vicinity of two more, Al Shifa Medical Complex and Al Ahli Hospital. Currently, across the Gaza Strip, only 2000 hospital beds remain available, for a population of over 2 million people.
- soderfoo 1y ago
  There was no need to hold real estate expos because the ethnic cleansing was a bit more direct during the Armenian and Assyrian genocide. It was atrocious then and it's atrocious now. There's almost something worse about zionst making it a business now. It's one thing to ethnically cleanse an area out of hatred, it's sick on a whole new level to try and turn a buck in the process.
csomar 1y ago
> which is to create a greater Israel This is fantasy. Israel (or any country really) ability to expand is limited by its neighbors. Egypt, Jordan and the GCC are more powerful than the 60s and the recent UAE message of pulling of the Abraham accord is a clear signal that they have real weight in Washington. Israel cannot, in the current circumstances, expand. So I agree with your parent. What Israel currently is doing is non-sense and plays in the hands of Hamas (who is not losing, as civilian lost lives do not count in Hamas counter).
- HelloNurse 1y ago
  Expansion is relative: consolidating the assimilation of Gaza and the West Bank is a project that has been progressing for decades, not a recent military development. Ridiculous escalations like invading the Sinai peninsula would be considered "expansion"; the current ethnic cleansing is perceived as an internal Israeli matter.
- DrScientist 1y ago
  Right now - the evidence on the ground is that Gaza is pretty much fully occupied and largely uninhabitable. Despite agreeing to leave under the brokered peace deal, Israel are still in southern Lebanon and show no sign of leaving. The flagrant breach of the original cease fire agreement appears to have no consequences. The effective seige and annexation of the West bank appears to be gathering pace. Smotrich said back in April that their campaign in Syria will end 'when Syria is dismantled' - they show no sign of leaving, and are still running operations in and around Damascus, and appear to be running the classic divide and conquer strategy. While the countries you mention may be stronger - Syria and Lebanon are both very weak and very dependent on US 'aid'. And in terms of US support, which I agree is critical in all this, they appear to have carte blanc from the current US administration. Also criticism from EU countries is much more muted than their populations would like - for example the UK government is spending more effort on trying to lock up it's own protesting citizens ( for 14 years under anti-terror laws for doing nothing more that holding up a sign ) than doing anything to stop Israel. Long term - who knows - but right now the plan does appear to be working.
  - 1y ago
ciconia 1y ago
This is spot on. This has been a recurring practice of the Israeli regime - to take advantage of a terrorist attack or some other pretext in order to take over additional territory and remove the local population. This modus operandi has been practiced since right after the partition resolution at the end of 1947 to conquer Palestinian villages, remove their inhabitants and rase the houses to the ground, and is still practiced today in the occupied territories and Gaza. Like you said, Israel's recent military campaigns in Lebanon and Syria are also examples of the same strategy.
- dotancohen 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    > One would think that if people don't want to lose land, they should not set out to make war. What a perverse, meaningless justification. This statement reflects your own insecurity - you would never let someone say this if it was Israeli territory being contested. You would never have to say this if Israel didn't possess illegally claim, genocide and then colonize annexed territory in violation of international law. Reprehensible double standard.
    - dotancohen 1y ago
      > This statement reflects your own insecurity Exactly. Unlike the US, there are no large oceans or seas surrounding Israel and keeping our enemies away. Our enemies are right on our borders, we are extremely insecure. What deterrent do we have? Attack us, loose land. That's it. That's our only deterrent.
      - comprev 1y ago
        As long as you continue to call your immediate neighbours "enemies" you will always feel insecure and threatened by them. Perhaps Israel could take a radically different path and aim to call their neighbours "friends" instead, or at minimum a healthy but neutral relationship? Only a small number of bordering countries worldwide are sworn enemies and the world would be a better place for everyone if this fell to zero.

lossolo 1y ago

This, for Israel it was a perfect pretext. Netanyahu financed Hamas through Qatar for years because he knew that Hamas is a destructive force for Palestinians and their struggle for nationhood. It was a cold, cynical decision. He exploited the anger and emotions of the people after October 7th to justify what he is doing now.

dlahoda 1y ago
any links for research proving you state?
- frm88 1y ago
  John Oliver did an In-depth analysis complete with sources in his latest Last Week Tonight. It's titled Netanyahu. Go, watch it, it is illuminating.
  - VonTum 1y ago
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Bwix9IjOE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Bwix9IjOE
  - names_are_hard 1y ago
    Unfortunately it's not available to me on YouTube: Video unavailable The uploader has not made this video available in your country :-(
    - bccdee 1y ago
      If you're willing to invest ten minutes and a tenth of a cent, you can spin up a virtual server in an American server farm and set up a SOCKS proxy with `ssh -D 8080 -nNT <user>@<host>`. Then in the Network Settings dialogue (at the bottom of General Settings), Firefox will let you proxy your traffic through it.
    - RunSet 1y ago
      You can download with yt-dlp over tor by starting the tor browser bundle and then calling yt-dlp like this: yt-dlp --proxy socks5://127.0.0.1:9150 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCh5WrNgydw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCh5WrNgydw
      - yubblegum 1y ago
        Heads up for anyone who assumes (like I did) that that is the URL for the John Oliver video, it is not. OP should have used $URL for his example.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- lossolo 1y ago
  In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that "In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas." He continued saying "Gaza was on the brink of collapse because they had no resources, they had no money, and the PA refused to give Hamas any money. Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza." At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas ... This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." Gershon Hacohen, former commander of the 7th Armored Brigade and an associate of Benjamin Netanyahu, said in 2019 in an interview: “Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas
  - jijijijij 1y ago
    I presume boosting Hamas over leftist/revolutionary groups meant less support for Palestinian liberation within the population of Europe and maybe in part the US. The reality of religious fundamentalism in Gaza is heavily exploited in Israeli propaganda, it's an effective deterrent still. If Gaza was held by an organization like the YPG/YPJ (Kurdish autonomy regions) Israel would have had far more, earlier resistance from western governments/populations, I think.
    - tguvot 1y ago
      hamas started as islamic charity/community support organization. this is when Israel supported it. when it became political and moved to terrorism - israel stopped supporting it. we are talking early 80s here.
- yubblegum 1y ago
  Swiss Policy Research has excellent documentation on the promotion of Hamas in Gaza by Israel: https://swprs.org/2023/10/20/israel-palestine-overview/ https://swprs.org/2023/10/20/israel-palestine-overview/
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Netanyahu financed Hamas through Qatar for years because he knew that Hamas is a destructive force for Palestinians and their struggle for nationhood It's probably as simple as Netanyahu's branded himself as Israel's protector, and if Palestine were to become less threatening, his political prospects sink.
- walleeee 1y ago
  No, it's probably not that simple. His self-interested maneuvering is without doubt part of the story, but it's very unlikely to be all of it.
heisgone 1y ago
It was too perfect. To the point where the stand down order stories are believable.
yubblegum 1y ago
I've come around to the possibility that there is a lot more here under the surface than what we general public/plebs are aware of. Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood. MB itself is the poster child of a movement hijacked by Western spook agencies. They want a heroic victory for MB because the West knows there are going to be numerous billions of Muslims and they can't kill them all so the best thing is to 'control' the religion as they own and run MB. October 7 completely undermined the non-MB resistance. Hamas jumped the gun, Israel 'stood down', and the axis of resistance was caught like deers in a headlight. They have been 'reacting' ever since and have been losing every step of the way. Now the question is: Is Qatar/MB upset about all this? ...

piltdownman 1y ago

Here's a thought experiment to underline that, in case there's any confusion. Q. How many times did any Countries hold islamic-only real-estate expos in Mosques for the former and future homes and territories of Jewish peoples either already dispossessed or planned to be dispossessed due to fundamentalist islamic occupation? _Zero_ Q. How many times did any Countries held jewish-only real-estate expos in Synagogues for the former homes and territories of Muslim peoples either already dispossessed or planned to be dispossessed due to zionist occupation? _Countless_ https://lapublicpress.org/2024/09/israeli-real-estate-fair-housing-investigation/ https://lapublicpress.org/2024/09/israeli-real-estate-fair-h... https://halifax.citynews.ca/2024/03/07/palestine-is-not-for-sale-israeli-event-promoting-west-bank-property-draws-critics/ https://halifax.citynews.ca/2024/03/07/palestine-is-not-for-... https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-drawing-protests-in-other-cities-expo-on-israeli-real-estate-nixed-in-brooklyn/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-drawing-protests-in-othe... https://www.laconverse.com/en/articles/les-coulisses-dun-salon-de-limmobilier-offrant-des-biens-en-terre-palestinienne https://www.laconverse.com/en/articles/les-coulisses-dun-sal... They're now at the point where they're paying their contractors $1,500 a house demolished, and constantly inciting violent engagement so as to get the IDF involved and sanitise the area - most notably near the supposed humanitarian relief distribution points they're so fond of double-tap bombing. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250630-shocking-israeli-report-killing-deemed-acceptable-as-contractors-paid-1500-for-each-home-demolished-in-gaza/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250630-shocking-israeli-... N.B. Israel is now concentrating on the remaining medical facilities, and has carried out at least 17 attacks on or in the vicinity of healthcare facilities in Gaza City since 16 September. (https://www.bmj.com/content/391/bmj.r2078 https://www.bmj.com/content/391/bmj.r2078) Three healthcare facilities—Al Quds Hospital, Al Rantisi Children’s Hospital, and the Medical Relief Health Centre—have all been directly hit, while further strikes were recorded in the vicinity of two more, Al Shifa Medical Complex and Al Ahli Hospital. Currently, across the Gaza Strip, only 2000 hospital beds remain available, for a population of over 2 million people.

soderfoo 1y ago
There was no need to hold real estate expos because the ethnic cleansing was a bit more direct during the Armenian and Assyrian genocide. It was atrocious then and it's atrocious now. There's almost something worse about zionst making it a business now. It's one thing to ethnically cleanse an area out of hatred, it's sick on a whole new level to try and turn a buck in the process.

csomar 1y ago

> which is to create a greater Israel This is fantasy. Israel (or any country really) ability to expand is limited by its neighbors. Egypt, Jordan and the GCC are more powerful than the 60s and the recent UAE message of pulling of the Abraham accord is a clear signal that they have real weight in Washington. Israel cannot, in the current circumstances, expand. So I agree with your parent. What Israel currently is doing is non-sense and plays in the hands of Hamas (who is not losing, as civilian lost lives do not count in Hamas counter).

HelloNurse 1y ago
Expansion is relative: consolidating the assimilation of Gaza and the West Bank is a project that has been progressing for decades, not a recent military development. Ridiculous escalations like invading the Sinai peninsula would be considered "expansion"; the current ethnic cleansing is perceived as an internal Israeli matter.
DrScientist 1y ago
Right now - the evidence on the ground is that Gaza is pretty much fully occupied and largely uninhabitable. Despite agreeing to leave under the brokered peace deal, Israel are still in southern Lebanon and show no sign of leaving. The flagrant breach of the original cease fire agreement appears to have no consequences. The effective seige and annexation of the West bank appears to be gathering pace. Smotrich said back in April that their campaign in Syria will end 'when Syria is dismantled' - they show no sign of leaving, and are still running operations in and around Damascus, and appear to be running the classic divide and conquer strategy. While the countries you mention may be stronger - Syria and Lebanon are both very weak and very dependent on US 'aid'. And in terms of US support, which I agree is critical in all this, they appear to have carte blanc from the current US administration. Also criticism from EU countries is much more muted than their populations would like - for example the UK government is spending more effort on trying to lock up it's own protesting citizens ( for 14 years under anti-terror laws for doing nothing more that holding up a sign ) than doing anything to stop Israel. Long term - who knows - but right now the plan does appear to be working.
- 1y ago

ciconia 1y ago

This is spot on. This has been a recurring practice of the Israeli regime - to take advantage of a terrorist attack or some other pretext in order to take over additional territory and remove the local population. This modus operandi has been practiced since right after the partition resolution at the end of 1947 to conquer Palestinian villages, remove their inhabitants and rase the houses to the ground, and is still practiced today in the occupied territories and Gaza. Like you said, Israel's recent military campaigns in Lebanon and Syria are also examples of the same strategy.

dotancohen 1y ago
[flagged]
- bigyabai 1y ago
  > One would think that if people don't want to lose land, they should not set out to make war. What a perverse, meaningless justification. This statement reflects your own insecurity - you would never let someone say this if it was Israeli territory being contested. You would never have to say this if Israel didn't possess illegally claim, genocide and then colonize annexed territory in violation of international law. Reprehensible double standard.
  - dotancohen 1y ago
    > This statement reflects your own insecurity Exactly. Unlike the US, there are no large oceans or seas surrounding Israel and keeping our enemies away. Our enemies are right on our borders, we are extremely insecure. What deterrent do we have? Attack us, loose land. That's it. That's our only deterrent.
    - comprev 1y ago
      As long as you continue to call your immediate neighbours "enemies" you will always feel insecure and threatened by them. Perhaps Israel could take a radically different path and aim to call their neighbours "friends" instead, or at minimum a healthy but neutral relationship? Only a small number of bordering countries worldwide are sworn enemies and the world would be a better place for everyone if this fell to zero.