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I’m one of the folks whose opinion of Israel has shifted. I don’t see them as a “genocidal terrorist state.” I see them as “just another middle eastern country.

I’m one of the folks whose opinion of Israel has shifted. I don’t see them as a “genocidal terrorist state.” I see them as “just another middle eastern country.” While it’s bad what’s happening, it’s still nowhere near Syrian or Yemeni levels, although that may change. The best analogy I can think of is the Allied conduct in Germany at the end of WWII. WWII was a just and defensive war. But the bombing of Dresden and atrocities by the Soviet Army were unnecessary and dishonorable. Israel is now engaged in unnecessary and dishonorable conduct. They’ve been demoted from impressive to embarrassing. But they’re still a legitimate country, just like, say, Saudi Arabia.

churchill 1y ago
>I’m one of the folks whose opinion of Israel has shifted. I don’t see them as a “genocidal terrorist state.” I see them as “just another middle eastern country.” Okay. Opinions are on a spectrum. just like you, hundreds of millions of people who used to be pretty neutral on Israel now have strong opinions on the country. As a country, you generally want to blend in like Singapore/Switzerland and just not attract attention. Israel is attracting that attention, and for very bad reasons. Western voters are childlike and emotional. They hate seeing blood on screen, children crying, starving, dying, being squeezed in queues for food. For any reason at all. Israel might seem like just another middle eastern country to you, but when you aggregate across 8 billion people, the average vibe has shifted negatively. By a lot. >While it’s bad what’s happening, it’s still nowhere near Syrian or Yemeni levels Tell that to Western voters who will be voting for 50 years. No one cares. just make it stop. >But they’re still a legitimate country, just like, say, Saudi Arabia. You're being nuanced. Cool. But the average human is not. Good luck beaming that moderate position into everyone's minds.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Western voters are childlike and emotional. They hate seeing blood on screen, children crying, starving, dying, being squeezed in queues for food There are like half a dozen wars of extermination currently occuring with lots of disturbing footage. Nobody really cares. Israel is close to home because it's an ally and we styled it as a Western-style democracy (versus something closer to the Middle Eastern democracy it is.) > Tell that to Western voters who will be voting for 50 years. No one cares. just make it stop There are precisely zero foreign policy issues that have survived this long on the back of vibes alone.
  - churchill 1y ago
    >There are precisely zero foreign policy issues that have survived this long on the back of vibes alone. Christian Zionist support for Israel is 100% based off vibes. Hitler's plan to invade Russia & exterminate its people for living space was based off Master Race vibes. America's Manifest destiny was based off vibes. Anti-communist domino theory was based off vibes and 58k young American kids died in Vietnam for it, not counting the 153k maimed and injured. Japan's imperial delusions that got them nuked was based off vibes. Want me to go on? >There are like half a dozen wars of extermination currently occurring with lots of disturbing footage. Nobody really cares. Israel is close to home because it's an ally and we styled it as a Western-style democracy (versus something closer to the Middle Eastern democracy it is.) Would you kindly name them, good sir? Off the top of my head, I think Sudan. But, no Westerner really cares about Sudan. Israel they do care about because of the media onslaught and their countries' stance on the issue. It's one of those conflicts you just can't unsee.
    - corimaith 1y ago
      >Christian Zionist support for Israel is 100% based off vibes. Hitler's plan to invade Russia & exterminate its people for living space was based off Master Race vibes. America's Manifest destiny was based off vibes. Anti-communist domino theory was based off vibes and 58k young American kids died in Vietnam for it, not counting the 153k maimed and injured. Japan's imperial delusions that got them nuked was based off vibes. This is totally serious analysis that is reflective of mainstream analysis and not just the projection of highly partisan political views. Foreign Policy Analysts certainly will be going to be making decisions based on views like this!
      - churchill 1y ago
        You didn't debunk any claim I made in my comment. All the historical episodes I referred to were deluded people coming up with nice-sounding theories on why they deserved to take other people's stuff or force their compliance by force. Each last one ended badly.

churchill 1y ago

>I’m one of the folks whose opinion of Israel has shifted. I don’t see them as a “genocidal terrorist state.” I see them as “just another middle eastern country.” Okay. Opinions are on a spectrum. just like you, hundreds of millions of people who used to be pretty neutral on Israel now have strong opinions on the country. As a country, you generally want to blend in like Singapore/Switzerland and just not attract attention. Israel is attracting that attention, and for very bad reasons. Western voters are childlike and emotional. They hate seeing blood on screen, children crying, starving, dying, being squeezed in queues for food. For any reason at all. Israel might seem like just another middle eastern country to you, but when you aggregate across 8 billion people, the average vibe has shifted negatively. By a lot. >While it’s bad what’s happening, it’s still nowhere near Syrian or Yemeni levels Tell that to Western voters who will be voting for 50 years. No one cares. just make it stop. >But they’re still a legitimate country, just like, say, Saudi Arabia. You're being nuanced. Cool. But the average human is not. Good luck beaming that moderate position into everyone's minds.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Western voters are childlike and emotional. They hate seeing blood on screen, children crying, starving, dying, being squeezed in queues for food There are like half a dozen wars of extermination currently occuring with lots of disturbing footage. Nobody really cares. Israel is close to home because it's an ally and we styled it as a Western-style democracy (versus something closer to the Middle Eastern democracy it is.) > Tell that to Western voters who will be voting for 50 years. No one cares. just make it stop There are precisely zero foreign policy issues that have survived this long on the back of vibes alone.
- churchill 1y ago
  >There are precisely zero foreign policy issues that have survived this long on the back of vibes alone. Christian Zionist support for Israel is 100% based off vibes. Hitler's plan to invade Russia & exterminate its people for living space was based off Master Race vibes. America's Manifest destiny was based off vibes. Anti-communist domino theory was based off vibes and 58k young American kids died in Vietnam for it, not counting the 153k maimed and injured. Japan's imperial delusions that got them nuked was based off vibes. Want me to go on? >There are like half a dozen wars of extermination currently occurring with lots of disturbing footage. Nobody really cares. Israel is close to home because it's an ally and we styled it as a Western-style democracy (versus something closer to the Middle Eastern democracy it is.) Would you kindly name them, good sir? Off the top of my head, I think Sudan. But, no Westerner really cares about Sudan. Israel they do care about because of the media onslaught and their countries' stance on the issue. It's one of those conflicts you just can't unsee.
  - corimaith 1y ago
    >Christian Zionist support for Israel is 100% based off vibes. Hitler's plan to invade Russia & exterminate its people for living space was based off Master Race vibes. America's Manifest destiny was based off vibes. Anti-communist domino theory was based off vibes and 58k young American kids died in Vietnam for it, not counting the 153k maimed and injured. Japan's imperial delusions that got them nuked was based off vibes. This is totally serious analysis that is reflective of mainstream analysis and not just the projection of highly partisan political views. Foreign Policy Analysts certainly will be going to be making decisions based on views like this!
    - churchill 1y ago
      You didn't debunk any claim I made in my comment. All the historical episodes I referred to were deluded people coming up with nice-sounding theories on why they deserved to take other people's stuff or force their compliance by force. Each last one ended badly.