5 ms·

I'm not sure where you get "Jews and Muslims have been allies since the start of Islamic history" and then you pivot to hate for Jews 20 years ago. Antisemitis

by YZF 1y ago

I'm not sure where you get "Jews and Muslims have been allies since the start of Islamic history" and then you pivot to hate for Jews 20 years ago. Antisemitism is alive and kicking. Hate to Jews has not been "displaced into Zionist hate". It's just s/Jews/Zionists/ the hate is the same hate. The blood libels are the same blood libels. The stereotypes the same stereotypes. If you are talking about how Jews have been treated in Muslim countries it ranged between second rate citizens (dhimmi) to outright massacre. Yes, there have been a handful of examples, in a handful of countries, where Jews managed to thrive despite the discrimination but it was the exception that proved the rule. I would love to see Israel's government gone and the Palestinian government of Hamas gone. I'm not seeing any analogy to Japan.

istajeer242 1y ago
That's not true; I have seen many members in the Satmar community here in NYC that join pro palestinian protests, and are met with absolute love. They're spat on by the Israeli side at said protests. I think people here at least separate the two very well and it's not a s/Jews/Zionists/g at all.
- YZF 1y ago
  This is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are Jews". So the Satmar anti-Zionist Jews are ok? But the other Jews? Also met with love? Do you love the Jews that have opinions that differ than yours on this conflict? Why do Palestinian protests where I live (Canada) target Synagogues, Jewish owned businesses, Jewish neighborhoods? Do Zionists control the US? The Media? Not Jews... nono. "Zionists". I'm not necessarily talking about you specifically. But it is a fact that antisemites use this technique and this is being normalized. Why does it matter than you have a token Jewish person in your protest at all? Who cares if someone in your protest is a Satmar Jew or an Iranian Bhaii?
  - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
    As a jew, I have never felt more targeted by anti-semitism than I have following israel's genocide of Palestinians. israel is making jews like me look bad by association, even though that association is false. The worst part is, most of that antisemitism comes from zionists. Zealots making posts not unlike yours, frequently accuse me and my kind of being 'self-hating jews' for being insufficiently zionist. It really sucks. As a side note, please stop repeatedly, unsuccessfully trying to conflate jews with zionists. We are not the same thing, and it is hurtful to hear you insult jews like that. It is somewhat akin to conflating all South Africans with apartheid supporters, or all Germans with nazis, except you are stereotyping based on religion, rather than national origin.
    - throwaway3060 1y ago
      That conflation was made by antisemites first, many decades ago. That is simply historical fact, whether people know it or not. In that time and place antizionism was a barely concealed excuse for straight antisemitism; it didn't actually matter what their targets believed.
      - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
        And yet, you are the one making the antisemitic conflation here and now. The fact that you're repeating the words of people you believe to be antisemetic should be a clue that the words you're repeating are antisemetic. Just because an antisemite says something doesn't mean you should agree and reshare their post. So maybe don't? Next time you see an antisemite saying that, rather than parroting their talking points to others, you can tell them the same thing: zionists and jews aren't the same thing, and many jews are members of the global consensus in opposing the ongoing israeli genocide of Palestinians. Or don't, maybe it won't make a difference, and it's your choice. In the meantime, please stop repeating hurtful antisemetic tropes by conflating us jews with zionists. We are not the same. Criticism of zionism and the israeli genocide of Palestinians is totally legitimate. Propagating antisemetic language is antisemetic. That means smarmy posts I've seen around saying things to the effect of, 'zionists... you mean jews??? [*wink wink*]'
muzani 1y ago
For a century, Israel has been telling the world that they represented Jews, and Nakba was what the Jews wanted and it was their right. So for a century, the world hated Jews because of this narrative. And only recently people are learning the truth. There's a lot to unpack in the last 1400 years, but basically everyone cherry picks what they want to see. Medina, the first actual Islamic state, was established on an alliance between the Muslims and Jewish tribes. When the Muslims took Jerusalem, they welcomed the Jewish back. There's a few of these right up until Ottoman times. Dhimmi literally meant "protected person" - they can't be attacked or looted by Muslims and were not conscripted. Alliances aren't necessarily friendships, and a lot of these were built on mutual protection vs a common enemy rather than brotherhood. Even in recent times, there's common grounds, especially in terms of religion. It's a kind of cousinhood. Notably all kosher food is halal, though not vice versa. In countries with both, it's popular to have a Jewish/Muslim district and Muslims often join Jewish student accommodations. Of course there's plenty of bad history, but I find that the people who are pro-genocide will bring up massacres by Muslims. The people who advocate for treating Israeli Arabs as second-rate citizens will bring up dhimmis. In the end, we pick the history we want to repeat.

by YZF 1y ago

istajeer242 1y ago

That's not true; I have seen many members in the Satmar community here in NYC that join pro palestinian protests, and are met with absolute love. They're spat on by the Israeli side at said protests. I think people here at least separate the two very well and it's not a s/Jews/Zionists/g at all.

YZF 1y ago
This is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are Jews". So the Satmar anti-Zionist Jews are ok? But the other Jews? Also met with love? Do you love the Jews that have opinions that differ than yours on this conflict? Why do Palestinian protests where I live (Canada) target Synagogues, Jewish owned businesses, Jewish neighborhoods? Do Zionists control the US? The Media? Not Jews... nono. "Zionists". I'm not necessarily talking about you specifically. But it is a fact that antisemites use this technique and this is being normalized. Why does it matter than you have a token Jewish person in your protest at all? Who cares if someone in your protest is a Satmar Jew or an Iranian Bhaii?
- ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
  As a jew, I have never felt more targeted by anti-semitism than I have following israel's genocide of Palestinians. israel is making jews like me look bad by association, even though that association is false. The worst part is, most of that antisemitism comes from zionists. Zealots making posts not unlike yours, frequently accuse me and my kind of being 'self-hating jews' for being insufficiently zionist. It really sucks. As a side note, please stop repeatedly, unsuccessfully trying to conflate jews with zionists. We are not the same thing, and it is hurtful to hear you insult jews like that. It is somewhat akin to conflating all South Africans with apartheid supporters, or all Germans with nazis, except you are stereotyping based on religion, rather than national origin.
  - throwaway3060 1y ago
    That conflation was made by antisemites first, many decades ago. That is simply historical fact, whether people know it or not. In that time and place antizionism was a barely concealed excuse for straight antisemitism; it didn't actually matter what their targets believed.
    - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
      And yet, you are the one making the antisemitic conflation here and now. The fact that you're repeating the words of people you believe to be antisemetic should be a clue that the words you're repeating are antisemetic. Just because an antisemite says something doesn't mean you should agree and reshare their post. So maybe don't? Next time you see an antisemite saying that, rather than parroting their talking points to others, you can tell them the same thing: zionists and jews aren't the same thing, and many jews are members of the global consensus in opposing the ongoing israeli genocide of Palestinians. Or don't, maybe it won't make a difference, and it's your choice. In the meantime, please stop repeating hurtful antisemetic tropes by conflating us jews with zionists. We are not the same. Criticism of zionism and the israeli genocide of Palestinians is totally legitimate. Propagating antisemetic language is antisemetic. That means smarmy posts I've seen around saying things to the effect of, 'zionists... you mean jews??? [*wink wink*]'

muzani 1y ago

For a century, Israel has been telling the world that they represented Jews, and Nakba was what the Jews wanted and it was their right. So for a century, the world hated Jews because of this narrative. And only recently people are learning the truth. There's a lot to unpack in the last 1400 years, but basically everyone cherry picks what they want to see. Medina, the first actual Islamic state, was established on an alliance between the Muslims and Jewish tribes. When the Muslims took Jerusalem, they welcomed the Jewish back. There's a few of these right up until Ottoman times. Dhimmi literally meant "protected person" - they can't be attacked or looted by Muslims and were not conscripted. Alliances aren't necessarily friendships, and a lot of these were built on mutual protection vs a common enemy rather than brotherhood. Even in recent times, there's common grounds, especially in terms of religion. It's a kind of cousinhood. Notably all kosher food is halal, though not vice versa. In countries with both, it's popular to have a Jewish/Muslim district and Muslims often join Jewish student accommodations. Of course there's plenty of bad history, but I find that the people who are pro-genocide will bring up massacres by Muslims. The people who advocate for treating Israeli Arabs as second-rate citizens will bring up dhimmis. In the end, we pick the history we want to repeat.