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I don't think killing Sinwar means much. Israel definitely wanted him dead but, to their national security, it doesn't mean anything. Sinwar isn't unique and he

I don't think killing Sinwar means much. Israel definitely wanted him dead but, to their national security, it doesn't mean anything. Sinwar isn't unique and he'd just be replaced by the next guy who wants to do the same thing and also doesn't care if he's made a martyr in the process. Strategically, they have to destroy the entirety of Hamas and hope the Palestinians are allowed to and do elect better leadership. Anything less is accepting the status quo that led to Oct 7.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> don't think killing Sinwar means much. Israel definitely wanted him dead but, to their national security, it doesn't mean anything You don't think the next jackass who pitches an October 7th attack won't get second thoughts from his lieutenants when they consider that all of them will be killed, their friends and families--best case--rendered homeless, their cause set back decades, all while Israel suffers fewer deaths from the entire operation than Hamas was able to notch on its one day of glory?
- parineum 1y ago
  If they were able to repeat Oct 7, I think they'd gladly be martyred for that. I think Sinwar would have loved to stay alive and recommit his attrocities but martyrdom is a nice consolation prize. The next in line should be so lucky.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > If they were able to repeat Oct 7, I think they'd gladly be martyred for that I'd love to see firm evidence for this. It seems a little too fatalistic, and convenient for arguing for the permanent subjugation of a people, to suggest that two million people can't be left to their own devices without obsessively committing to destroying themselves against their neighbors.
    - tguvot 1y ago
      for context about hamas thinking in general [0] (quote from article) "for the past two years the Hamas leadership had been talking about implementing "the last promise" (alwaed al'akhir) – a divine promise regarding the end of days, when all human beings will accept Islam. Sinwar and his circle ascribed an extreme and literal meaning to the notion of "the promise, " a belief that pervaded all their messages: in speeches, sermons, lectures in schools and universities. The cardinal theme was the implementation of the last promise, which included the forced conversion of all heretics to Islam, or their killing" , and good chunks of population specifically [1] [0] https://judaic.arizona.edu/sites/judaic.arizona.edu/files/2024-04/Hamas%20Actually%20Believed%20It%20Would%20Conquer%20Israel.%20In%20Preparation,%20It%20Divided%20the%20Country%20Into%20Cantons%20-%20Israel%20News%20-%20Haaretz.com_.pdf https://judaic.arizona.edu/sites/judaic.arizona.edu/files/20... [1] https://xcancel.com/thehonestlypod/status/1973045630428655972 https://xcancel.com/thehonestlypod/status/197304563042865597...

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> don't think killing Sinwar means much. Israel definitely wanted him dead but, to their national security, it doesn't mean anything You don't think the next jackass who pitches an October 7th attack won't get second thoughts from his lieutenants when they consider that all of them will be killed, their friends and families--best case--rendered homeless, their cause set back decades, all while Israel suffers fewer deaths from the entire operation than Hamas was able to notch on its one day of glory?

parineum 1y ago
If they were able to repeat Oct 7, I think they'd gladly be martyred for that. I think Sinwar would have loved to stay alive and recommit his attrocities but martyrdom is a nice consolation prize. The next in line should be so lucky.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > If they were able to repeat Oct 7, I think they'd gladly be martyred for that I'd love to see firm evidence for this. It seems a little too fatalistic, and convenient for arguing for the permanent subjugation of a people, to suggest that two million people can't be left to their own devices without obsessively committing to destroying themselves against their neighbors.
  - tguvot 1y ago
    for context about hamas thinking in general [0] (quote from article) "for the past two years the Hamas leadership had been talking about implementing "the last promise" (alwaed al'akhir) – a divine promise regarding the end of days, when all human beings will accept Islam. Sinwar and his circle ascribed an extreme and literal meaning to the notion of "the promise, " a belief that pervaded all their messages: in speeches, sermons, lectures in schools and universities. The cardinal theme was the implementation of the last promise, which included the forced conversion of all heretics to Islam, or their killing" , and good chunks of population specifically [1] [0] https://judaic.arizona.edu/sites/judaic.arizona.edu/files/2024-04/Hamas%20Actually%20Believed%20It%20Would%20Conquer%20Israel.%20In%20Preparation,%20It%20Divided%20the%20Country%20Into%20Cantons%20-%20Israel%20News%20-%20Haaretz.com_.pdf https://judaic.arizona.edu/sites/judaic.arizona.edu/files/20... [1] https://xcancel.com/thehonestlypod/status/1973045630428655972 https://xcancel.com/thehonestlypod/status/197304563042865597...