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Oh yes, you can, then an update is installed overnight and now they're presented with a non-dismissable screen that forces them to add it. Literally happened t

by bapak 1y ago

Oh yes, you can, then an update is installed overnight and now they're presented with a non-dismissable screen that forces them to add it. Literally happened this month with iOS 26 on my family iPad. Suddenly it had a passcode and I knew exactly why.

Telaneo 1y ago
You can opt to not add a passcode, but the option to skip on setup is hidden, and people generally aren't going to go back to the settings to remove it once it's added. It's a dark pattern I kind of get, but it's still not ideal, especially for a market segment like the elderly.
- bapak 1y ago
  Again, I did that, but then iOS keeps asking until it reaches someone who doesn't realize that there's no option. Effectively you have to reject it regularly, which isn't practical in this context (the elderly)
  - Telaneo 1y ago
    I agree with that. I was just disputing the 'a non-dismissable screen that forces them to add it' of your comment. It is skippable, but it's hidden in a way your Grandma isn't going to discover.
  - ZPrimed 1y ago
    oh come on, you just need to buy a Mac so you can use one of the management toolkits to prevent that from happening. it Just Works! _deeply_ /s of course (and I say this as someone who is basically 100% a Mac user who admins Linux for a living... Apple makes a lot of stupid / frustrating decisions that I don't agree with, but I still prefer it over the alternatives)
- socalgal2 1y ago
  Hmmm, I don't have a solution but if it was common for elderly people to have no passcode then they'd be a huge target for stealing them and emptying their bank accounts.
  - Barbing 1y ago
    Absolutely. Pickpockets would know to target them, text whoever has the most common last name, all kinds of scams.
  - Telaneo 1y ago
    That's why I get that the default should be a passcode. Same reason Windows Update probably should automatically update. We live in a problematic world and these options are the least bad. My Grandma's solution to this problem is to not bring her phone with her when going to public places, and that's probably the right call if you can swing it.
    - ryandrake 1y ago
      It's one thing to be a default. It's another thing entirely to employ dark patterns and annoyances to coerce/trick the user into doing something they don't want to. The user should ultimately be in charge, and the machine should get out of the user's way.
  - dns_snek 1y ago
    > stealing them and emptying their bank accounts. Which bank allows you to empty someone's bank account if you find yourself with an unlocked device in your hand?? If was a criminal I'd be waiting outside their branch and snatching people's phones out of their hands right there, so I'm pretty confident that's not a real scenario.
    - Telaneo 1y ago
      Ones which only need a login saved in their browser and a 2fa code which is also on their phone.
      - BlueTemplar 1y ago
        I assume you mean a password that can be saved in the browser ? Still, blame the bank, this is an issue they should have fixed even before smartphones became popular.
Barbing 1y ago
>family iPad Are you sure you’re allowed to do that? There’s a reason multiple user accounts aren’t supported (“buy one iPad per person please!)
bunher 1y ago
Had the same terrible experience. Opting out from the passcode is only possible for people who know that words can also be a button. It’s a dark pattern urging you into a passcode, and another dark pattern for using numbers and letters in said passcode. And it happens every stupid iOS update. I used to tell my parents: please make these updates! Now I say: please don’t. Honestly, it was years ago when iOS updates made the device better. Now it is always worse. Not a single feature in the last 5 years was added but you have to update so often. I switched from Android to iOS and I must say: both UX are completely enshittified. For me (IT person) not a problem, but for elderly rare occasion users it is absolutely terrible. On one hand you can now talk to ChatGPT in natural voice, but figuring out how to make a cell phone call on iOS on your own: impossible (spoiler: WhatsApp calls are also in the phone app‘s call list). Sure, you could buy them a dumb phone, but for online banking etc you do need a smartphone. Good luck tackling the App Store if you only use it once a year….
- BlueTemplar 1y ago
  Online banking can do 2FA through texts, which is probably the least bad option these days.

by bapak 1y ago

Telaneo 1y ago

You can opt to not add a passcode, but the option to skip on setup is hidden, and people generally aren't going to go back to the settings to remove it once it's added. It's a dark pattern I kind of get, but it's still not ideal, especially for a market segment like the elderly.

bapak 1y ago
Again, I did that, but then iOS keeps asking until it reaches someone who doesn't realize that there's no option. Effectively you have to reject it regularly, which isn't practical in this context (the elderly)
- Telaneo 1y ago
  I agree with that. I was just disputing the 'a non-dismissable screen that forces them to add it' of your comment. It is skippable, but it's hidden in a way your Grandma isn't going to discover.
- ZPrimed 1y ago
  oh come on, you just need to buy a Mac so you can use one of the management toolkits to prevent that from happening. it Just Works! _deeply_ /s of course (and I say this as someone who is basically 100% a Mac user who admins Linux for a living... Apple makes a lot of stupid / frustrating decisions that I don't agree with, but I still prefer it over the alternatives)
socalgal2 1y ago
Hmmm, I don't have a solution but if it was common for elderly people to have no passcode then they'd be a huge target for stealing them and emptying their bank accounts.
- Barbing 1y ago
  Absolutely. Pickpockets would know to target them, text whoever has the most common last name, all kinds of scams.
- Telaneo 1y ago
  That's why I get that the default should be a passcode. Same reason Windows Update probably should automatically update. We live in a problematic world and these options are the least bad. My Grandma's solution to this problem is to not bring her phone with her when going to public places, and that's probably the right call if you can swing it.
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    It's one thing to be a default. It's another thing entirely to employ dark patterns and annoyances to coerce/trick the user into doing something they don't want to. The user should ultimately be in charge, and the machine should get out of the user's way.
- dns_snek 1y ago
  > stealing them and emptying their bank accounts. Which bank allows you to empty someone's bank account if you find yourself with an unlocked device in your hand?? If was a criminal I'd be waiting outside their branch and snatching people's phones out of their hands right there, so I'm pretty confident that's not a real scenario.
  - Telaneo 1y ago
    Ones which only need a login saved in their browser and a 2fa code which is also on their phone.
    - BlueTemplar 1y ago
      I assume you mean a password that can be saved in the browser ? Still, blame the bank, this is an issue they should have fixed even before smartphones became popular.

Barbing 1y ago

>family iPad Are you sure you’re allowed to do that? There’s a reason multiple user accounts aren’t supported (“buy one iPad per person please!)

bunher 1y ago

Had the same terrible experience. Opting out from the passcode is only possible for people who know that words can also be a button. It’s a dark pattern urging you into a passcode, and another dark pattern for using numbers and letters in said passcode. And it happens every stupid iOS update. I used to tell my parents: please make these updates! Now I say: please don’t. Honestly, it was years ago when iOS updates made the device better. Now it is always worse. Not a single feature in the last 5 years was added but you have to update so often. I switched from Android to iOS and I must say: both UX are completely enshittified. For me (IT person) not a problem, but for elderly rare occasion users it is absolutely terrible. On one hand you can now talk to ChatGPT in natural voice, but figuring out how to make a cell phone call on iOS on your own: impossible (spoiler: WhatsApp calls are also in the phone app‘s call list). Sure, you could buy them a dumb phone, but for online banking etc you do need a smartphone. Good luck tackling the App Store if you only use it once a year….

BlueTemplar 1y ago
Online banking can do 2FA through texts, which is probably the least bad option these days.