4 ms·

Why are people so obsessed about apps. could be a website that couldn’t easily be taken down.

by amazingamazing 1y ago

moelf 1y ago
what if you want a push notification when ICE agents appear in your work area?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- CharlesW 1y ago
  https://web.dev/articles/push-notifications-web-push-protocol https://web.dev/articles/push-notifications-web-push-protoco...
  - jeroenhd 1y ago
    Without a VAPID key identifiable by Apple, those notifications won't arrive.
    - adam_hn 1y ago
      Yes, but in that case, it will be less likely to be blocked because the people requesting the blocking are not competent enough to ask for it. Don't get me wrong, I wish this were not the case, but why let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough?
- softwaredoug 1y ago
  Maybe an SMS based approach would be preferred over an app notification.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
    Expensive for the host though
beeflet 1y ago
PWAs are limited in functionality, and websites on the clearnet are easily taken down or blocked.
- zb3 1y ago
  > PWAs are limited in functionality By Apple, because it's Apple that a) refuses to implement advanced PWA features in WebKit and b) refuses to allow apps to use other browser engines.
  - scarface_74 1y ago
    So exactly which festures would be needed in a PWA that’s not currently available in iOS? It’s just a meaningless talking point without specifics
    - beeflet 1y ago
      I have looked into developing a PWA. For starters: 1. Decent storage API. Last time I checked, there were serious limitations on the amount of storage you can use, especially in iOS 2. Mechanism for the user to save a certain . Analogous to saving and running a .exe and being able to compare the file hashes and run different versions of a file without the app developer's intent. This would include the ability to write and edit web apps from your device. 3. Some way of sending TCP/UDP packets directly, and doing port forwarding through UPnP. 4. Mechanism to run processes in the background, and for inter-app communication. For example, you could not make a decent bittorrent app as a PWA. This is an example of an app which is prohibited on the app store despite having Apple having no legal basis for doing so. I've often wondered if it would be possible to make some sort of "PWA Browser" that would give web apps hooks to some of this functionality, but it would probably get banned (There are no real rules on the app store, they can just ban you for whatever they want).
      - scarface_74 1y ago
        And this has nothing to do with my question - what features are lacking that would prevent this particular app from being a web app?
pacomerh 1y ago
Well, native apps are more popular among non tech savvy people because they’re easier to find and install. I was talking to the guy who works on our backyard and they don't even know what a browser is on their phone.
- latexr 1y ago
  > they don't even know what a browser is on their phone. Why should they? There’s no app called “web browser” on the phone. But there may be “Safari” or “Google Chrome”. Do they know what those are? If you told them “go to <some web address>”, could they do it?
  - carbonbioxide 1y ago
    yeah? and what are they gonna do when they get to safari, type the website, and accept geo location?. You don't know humans. you lost me at "if you told them", who's gonna tell them?
    - latexr 1y ago
      Your outrage and accusations are nonsensical, you didn’t understand my post at all. I was asking about that person specifically.
ursaspark 1y ago
this is what I dont understand. so many apps are almost website-like in functionality, and you can save a shortcut to the desktop / main screen and it will launch / look like an app. complete with notifications (if enabled). What's the barrier? (another poster mentioned not knnowing anything outside of the appstore, but then "Share -> Add to Home screen" is a pretty damn simple flow.
- adam_hn 1y ago
  You would be surprised, I have never seen anyone who doesn't work in tech in my life who even knows that this is an option.
gkbrk 1y ago
Hmm, would be a shame if a major mobile operating system provider also ran a website-blocking service used by the largest web browser (Chrome) and the largest open-source web browser (Firefox). They could even call it something like Google Safe Browsing to make it sound good to people.
sschueller 1y ago
You can't send a push notification without a certificate that apple controls from a website. Push notifications seem to be key here so that you don't have the constantly open the app/webpage.
- barbazoo 1y ago
  They could send a message instead (sms, email, etc) which then can be configured to pop up as a notification.
standardUser 1y ago
Most people's technical acumen (and access) maxes out at using an iPhone. Often an old one.

Why are people so obsessed about apps. could be a website that couldn’t easily be taken down.

moelf 1y ago

what if you want a push notification when ICE agents appear in your work area?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
CharlesW 1y ago
https://web.dev/articles/push-notifications-web-push-protocol https://web.dev/articles/push-notifications-web-push-protoco...
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  Without a VAPID key identifiable by Apple, those notifications won't arrive.
  - adam_hn 1y ago
    Yes, but in that case, it will be less likely to be blocked because the people requesting the blocking are not competent enough to ask for it. Don't get me wrong, I wish this were not the case, but why let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough?
softwaredoug 1y ago
Maybe an SMS based approach would be preferred over an app notification.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
  Expensive for the host though

beeflet 1y ago

PWAs are limited in functionality, and websites on the clearnet are easily taken down or blocked.

zb3 1y ago
> PWAs are limited in functionality By Apple, because it's Apple that a) refuses to implement advanced PWA features in WebKit and b) refuses to allow apps to use other browser engines.
- scarface_74 1y ago
  So exactly which festures would be needed in a PWA that’s not currently available in iOS? It’s just a meaningless talking point without specifics
  - beeflet 1y ago
    I have looked into developing a PWA. For starters: 1. Decent storage API. Last time I checked, there were serious limitations on the amount of storage you can use, especially in iOS 2. Mechanism for the user to save a certain . Analogous to saving and running a .exe and being able to compare the file hashes and run different versions of a file without the app developer's intent. This would include the ability to write and edit web apps from your device. 3. Some way of sending TCP/UDP packets directly, and doing port forwarding through UPnP. 4. Mechanism to run processes in the background, and for inter-app communication. For example, you could not make a decent bittorrent app as a PWA. This is an example of an app which is prohibited on the app store despite having Apple having no legal basis for doing so. I've often wondered if it would be possible to make some sort of "PWA Browser" that would give web apps hooks to some of this functionality, but it would probably get banned (There are no real rules on the app store, they can just ban you for whatever they want).
    - scarface_74 1y ago
      And this has nothing to do with my question - what features are lacking that would prevent this particular app from being a web app?

pacomerh 1y ago

Well, native apps are more popular among non tech savvy people because they’re easier to find and install. I was talking to the guy who works on our backyard and they don't even know what a browser is on their phone.

latexr 1y ago
> they don't even know what a browser is on their phone. Why should they? There’s no app called “web browser” on the phone. But there may be “Safari” or “Google Chrome”. Do they know what those are? If you told them “go to <some web address>”, could they do it?
- carbonbioxide 1y ago
  yeah? and what are they gonna do when they get to safari, type the website, and accept geo location?. You don't know humans. you lost me at "if you told them", who's gonna tell them?
  - latexr 1y ago
    Your outrage and accusations are nonsensical, you didn’t understand my post at all. I was asking about that person specifically.

ursaspark 1y ago

this is what I dont understand. so many apps are almost website-like in functionality, and you can save a shortcut to the desktop / main screen and it will launch / look like an app. complete with notifications (if enabled). What's the barrier? (another poster mentioned not knnowing anything outside of the appstore, but then "Share -> Add to Home screen" is a pretty damn simple flow.

adam_hn 1y ago
You would be surprised, I have never seen anyone who doesn't work in tech in my life who even knows that this is an option.

gkbrk 1y ago

Hmm, would be a shame if a major mobile operating system provider also ran a website-blocking service used by the largest web browser (Chrome) and the largest open-source web browser (Firefox). They could even call it something like Google Safe Browsing to make it sound good to people.

sschueller 1y ago

You can't send a push notification without a certificate that apple controls from a website. Push notifications seem to be key here so that you don't have the constantly open the app/webpage.

barbazoo 1y ago
They could send a message instead (sms, email, etc) which then can be configured to pop up as a notification.

standardUser 1y ago

Most people's technical acumen (and access) maxes out at using an iPhone. Often an old one.