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We can talk endlessly about strategy and long term implications (for example, the destruction of the Iranian "ring of fire" network of proxies, the permanent ch

We can talk endlessly about strategy and long term implications (for example, the destruction of the Iranian "ring of fire" network of proxies, the permanent changes in Syria and Lebanon, etc), but consider something much more basic: Israelis around Gaza can finally live securely. There are no rockets coming from Gaza, no mortars, no chance of another October 7th or smaller incursions as long as the Israeli military is there. Israelis have peace. No Gazan rocket can disturb the life in Tel Aviv or Ashdod. This couldn't and shouldn't have been a re-run of the countless previous clashes with Hamas. Israel needed to go all out to change the security situation, permanently.

jayveeone 1y ago
[flagged]
- flyinglizard 1y ago
  It’s a very high hill to die on, expecting Israeli civilians to prioritize the lives of enemies over their own. Any historical precedent, or are we entering into the fuzzy realm of uncharted morality?
  - jayveeone 1y ago
    It's a neat little trick to just say any child you shoot in the head is Hamas. Or any women a children you starve was actually Hamas. Or every hospital you blow up was because Hamas was hiding in there. Or just pretend that October 2023 was the start of the conflict ignoring the decades of death, apartheid, and brutality preceding it. I'm just glad people like you are willing to publish stuff like this to the internet so we can look back and understand why genocides are allowed to happen.
    - flyinglizard 1y ago
      >> It's a neat little trick to just say any child you shoot in the head is Hamas. Or any women a children you starve was actually Hamas. Your words; not mine. I am supporting the military campaign against Gaza, and I also reject the separation between "Gaza" and "Hamas" as entirely artificial and serving an agenda. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, they administrate Gaza, they pay salaries and they're the ones you negotiate with regarding Gaza. When your hear casualties numbers coming from the "Gaza Health Ministry", they're provided by Hamas. In October 7th 2023 it's Gaza, not Hamas, who started a war with Israel (not with the Israeli Defense Forces). It's a war between populations that for various reasons will not coexist on the same piece of land. Back in WWII, USA fought Japan, not the "Imperial Japanese Armed Forces". This is a war between nations.
      - jayveeone 1y ago
        The things people are willing to publish. The "Hamas is the elected government therefore women and children deserve to die" is Israeli propaganda. It was a single election 20 years ago for a party running on change, not what Hamas stands for now. It was a protest vote. Palestinians have been experiencing genocide for decades. Your seething hate for brown people is apart though. I'm glad you're willing to share it for the world to see.
        flyinglizard 1y ago
        >> Hamas is the elected government therefore women and children deserve to die It's your own propaganda. Not mine, nor the Israeli government. If your concern was with saving "brown people" lives, the most effective way to do so was to advocate for Hamas to release the remaining Israeli hostages and surrender. As it is, you're advocating for an Israeli surrender. As it is, I openly and proudly call for Israel to win this war, decisively, with a surrender of their enemy. P.S. Israelis are "brown people", given that most of the Israelis are of Arab origin (Jews, Christian and Muslim), about 70% or so.
        jayveeone 1y ago
        An actual white supremacist right here on good ol hacker news.
        flyinglizard 1y ago
        Too bad you weren't around in WWII to throw insults at those who are looking to win.
        jayveeone 1y ago
        If I remember correctly, the side holding people in concentration camps and shooting children in their heads weren't the good guys. It's not surprising that someone like you is making themselves the hero for supporting genocide though.
  - hjkl0 1y ago
    The war in Gaza did not save a single Israeli’s life. Hundreds of Israeli are dead because of it though, many through accidents and friendly fire. So it’s not about prioritizing lives, it’s about prioritizing ideologies. And the pervasive ideology in Israel is that Palestinians are not people, and therefore our children, the IDF soldiers who daily target them, are not war criminals.
    - flyinglizard 1y ago
      Deferring this war is what placed Hamas in a position to attack on October 7th. Never again.
NomDePlum 1y ago
[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  No, they are not. They're explaining the actual benefits Israeli citizens have gained from the war. That's valid to note.
sirfz 1y ago
Israel has seen more rockets and daily attacks than probably in its entire existance since they commenced the Gaza genocide what are you talking about.
- YZF 1y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_...
  - brigandish 1y ago
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this? The claim is that there are less rockets now, but that article doesn't show anything for 2024 or 2025. There is an article specifically for 2024 that is linked but only shows attacks up till May. Whether that means rockets have stopped, as is the claim, or that they simply haven't been recorded in the Wiki is unknown.
anigbrowl 1y ago
I'm pretty sure people said the same thing after operation Cast Lead and other previous crackdowns. A country making itself into an international pariah while pursuing local security from an antagonist it nurtured in the first place is extremely myopic. As this conflict has dragged on, it has become more and more apparent that a great many Israelis (including in government) view their strategic situation through the lens of ancient historical conflicts from >2000 years ago and fantasize about resorting to the triumphant excesses of legend. Mass psychosis is not a good basis for long-term security.

jayveeone 1y ago

[flagged]

flyinglizard 1y ago
It’s a very high hill to die on, expecting Israeli civilians to prioritize the lives of enemies over their own. Any historical precedent, or are we entering into the fuzzy realm of uncharted morality?
- jayveeone 1y ago
  It's a neat little trick to just say any child you shoot in the head is Hamas. Or any women a children you starve was actually Hamas. Or every hospital you blow up was because Hamas was hiding in there. Or just pretend that October 2023 was the start of the conflict ignoring the decades of death, apartheid, and brutality preceding it. I'm just glad people like you are willing to publish stuff like this to the internet so we can look back and understand why genocides are allowed to happen.
  - flyinglizard 1y ago
    >> It's a neat little trick to just say any child you shoot in the head is Hamas. Or any women a children you starve was actually Hamas. Your words; not mine. I am supporting the military campaign against Gaza, and I also reject the separation between "Gaza" and "Hamas" as entirely artificial and serving an agenda. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, they administrate Gaza, they pay salaries and they're the ones you negotiate with regarding Gaza. When your hear casualties numbers coming from the "Gaza Health Ministry", they're provided by Hamas. In October 7th 2023 it's Gaza, not Hamas, who started a war with Israel (not with the Israeli Defense Forces). It's a war between populations that for various reasons will not coexist on the same piece of land. Back in WWII, USA fought Japan, not the "Imperial Japanese Armed Forces". This is a war between nations.
    - jayveeone 1y ago
      The things people are willing to publish. The "Hamas is the elected government therefore women and children deserve to die" is Israeli propaganda. It was a single election 20 years ago for a party running on change, not what Hamas stands for now. It was a protest vote. Palestinians have been experiencing genocide for decades. Your seething hate for brown people is apart though. I'm glad you're willing to share it for the world to see.
      - flyinglizard 1y ago
        >> Hamas is the elected government therefore women and children deserve to die It's your own propaganda. Not mine, nor the Israeli government. If your concern was with saving "brown people" lives, the most effective way to do so was to advocate for Hamas to release the remaining Israeli hostages and surrender. As it is, you're advocating for an Israeli surrender. As it is, I openly and proudly call for Israel to win this war, decisively, with a surrender of their enemy. P.S. Israelis are "brown people", given that most of the Israelis are of Arab origin (Jews, Christian and Muslim), about 70% or so.
        jayveeone 1y ago
        An actual white supremacist right here on good ol hacker news.
        flyinglizard 1y ago
        Too bad you weren't around in WWII to throw insults at those who are looking to win.
        jayveeone 1y ago
        If I remember correctly, the side holding people in concentration camps and shooting children in their heads weren't the good guys. It's not surprising that someone like you is making themselves the hero for supporting genocide though.
- hjkl0 1y ago
  The war in Gaza did not save a single Israeli’s life. Hundreds of Israeli are dead because of it though, many through accidents and friendly fire. So it’s not about prioritizing lives, it’s about prioritizing ideologies. And the pervasive ideology in Israel is that Palestinians are not people, and therefore our children, the IDF soldiers who daily target them, are not war criminals.
  - flyinglizard 1y ago
    Deferring this war is what placed Hamas in a position to attack on October 7th. Never again.

NomDePlum 1y ago

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
No, they are not. They're explaining the actual benefits Israeli citizens have gained from the war. That's valid to note.

sirfz 1y ago

Israel has seen more rockets and daily attacks than probably in its entire existance since they commenced the Gaza genocide what are you talking about.

YZF 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_...
- brigandish 1y ago
  I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this? The claim is that there are less rockets now, but that article doesn't show anything for 2024 or 2025. There is an article specifically for 2024 that is linked but only shows attacks up till May. Whether that means rockets have stopped, as is the claim, or that they simply haven't been recorded in the Wiki is unknown.

anigbrowl 1y ago

I'm pretty sure people said the same thing after operation Cast Lead and other previous crackdowns. A country making itself into an international pariah while pursuing local security from an antagonist it nurtured in the first place is extremely myopic. As this conflict has dragged on, it has become more and more apparent that a great many Israelis (including in government) view their strategic situation through the lens of ancient historical conflicts from >2000 years ago and fantasize about resorting to the triumphant excesses of legend. Mass psychosis is not a good basis for long-term security.