6 ms·

I do wonder how the psychology of humanity will change once you can't wait for someone to die, and conversely, you can't expect to die before consequences catch

by jayd16 1y ago

I do wonder how the psychology of humanity will change once you can't wait for someone to die, and conversely, you can't expect to die before consequences catch up to you.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> once you can't wait for someone to die, and consequently, you can't expect to die before consequences catch up to you People will still die, even in a world without ageing, which this treatment doesn't promise.
- Retric 1y ago
  The risk of death per year increasing with number of years lived is aging. Without that people have lived longer are more likely to have lower risks of death per year. And thus older people in such a society would on average live longer.
  - dandellion 1y ago
    Unless it also cures cancer a more likely outcome is that people who get the treatment will just stay young until they get cancer and die. Also, as I understand it cancer also slows down in old age, so staying younger could mean faster cancers possibly negating some of the gains from the decreased aging.
    - Retric 1y ago
      Aging is more than just looking old. If someone has an increased risk of death per year from cancer or whatever because something is failing over time they are still aging. If the rate per year stays the same IE being 20 or 20,000 has no impact on your risks of cancer each year then someone that’s 20,000 likely takes very few other risks and is more likely to live another 20,000 years than the random 20 year old.
    - MagicMoonlight 1y ago
      Cancer is primarily caused by aging, so in this world there likely wouldn’t be much cancer outside of the deliberate cancers caused by things like smoking
      - jibal 1y ago
        This is grossly wrong. "anti-aging" treatments won't reduce people's ages and won't undo epigenetic damage. And while age is the single strongest risk factor for cancer, it isn't the "primary cause", and there are numerous non-age-related causes of cancer.
        Retric 1y ago
        Bad “anti-aging” treatments definitely won’t do it, but they also won’t provide indefinite lifespans. > it isn't the "primary cause Only if you’re using an inaccurate definition of aging. If everyone over 20 should have the same risk of cancer as 20 years olds the total number of cancers would drop by more than half.
        jibal 1y ago
        P.S. The response is incoherent. Talk about "inaccurate definition" ... someone has an inaccurate definition of "cause".
- jibal 1y ago
  Most of humanity will die in this century as a consequence of global warming, a subject that barely gets a mention at this site. There was a window of hope, but the Trump administration's policies have closed it.
bix6 1y ago
Consequences seem to not matter so we’ll just get a bunch of meths like from altered carbon.
SequoiaHope 1y ago
Without going in to spoilers, the recent season of the Revolutions podcast about a future fictional revolution on Mars touches on this a fair bit. Someone about to die seizes power for himself, but no one cares much because he was already in charge and extending his reign a few more years till he dies was no big deal, until he extends his life and lives another 75 years.
- observationist 1y ago
  "Putin Eternal", or something like that. Ironically, the technology will probably lead to faster, worse fates for many like that than might have been the case if they'd just left it alone.
michaelsbradley 1y ago
cf. Palpatine
heavyset_go 1y ago
The Altered Carbon universe is a manifestation of this.
- ugh123 1y ago
  I'm certain, at some point in the not so distant future, Neuralink will create an arm of the company to build "sleeves".
  - jhallenworld 1y ago
    Altered Carbon used alien magic, the way this works in the real world will be far worse: Brain transplants. First, many poor people will need to be used as guinea pigs (a la the Sun King's anal fistula). Then once it works.. well some strapping young man (or woman!) will have to "volunteer" their body to host Elon's brain.
    - PoorlyNamed 1y ago
      Get Out.
      - cindyllm 1y ago
        [dead]
    - selcuka 1y ago
      They don't need a volunteer. They can clone themselves when they are, say, 30 year old and they will have a 100% compatible, 20 year old donor who has spent their life in suspended animation when the original is 50.
      - jhallenworld 1y ago
        No that won't do. You need someone else to prepare the body: you know... rigorous workouts for strength and physique. Ideally the person is an excellent cage fighter and has the reflexes of a top-tier video gamer.
roxolotl 1y ago
If you’re curious about fiction which thinks about this there’s Altered Carbon which is “what if the rich assholes can live forever” and there’s The Postmortal where all assholes get to live forever.
throw__away7391 1y ago
As I have gotten older I've slowly realized that waiting for people to die takes a long, long time, and no longer regard it as a good strategy.
- ian-g 1y ago
  Unfortunately seems to only be the case in aggregate
positron26 1y ago
I'm not an expert in psychology, but within a fixed population window, the murder rate will only go up unless there is a limited supply of those who murderers want to murder or unless murderers tend to prefer murdering other murderers, perhaps due to the change in game theory creating a new incentive. As humans would begin to live ever increasingly far away, we may approach a "murder death" condition where no new murders are possible. I will leave alone those who played Among Us until their numbers diminish and there is a better chance of reaching an early asymptote.
ben_w 1y ago
> you can't expect to die before consequences catch up to you. Many of the worst people in humanity, seem(ed) to act like they thought they were immortal. Even being grazed by a bullet didn't stop Trump praising the second amendment. (Though I say that as a non-American, and someone for whom the 2nd was part of why I never even considered attempting to migrate to the US; I do recognise the language used to support it as a quasi-religious badge of identity, i.e. hard to shake).
- xethos 1y ago
  > Even being grazed by a bullet didn't stop Trump praising the second amendment. This at least gives the semblance of Trump having and sticking to a set of principles (though I suspect it's more to do with what his supporters would accept)

by jayd16 1y ago

I do wonder how the psychology of humanity will change once you can't wait for someone to die, and conversely, you can't expect to die before consequences catch up to you.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> once you can't wait for someone to die, and consequently, you can't expect to die before consequences catch up to you People will still die, even in a world without ageing, which this treatment doesn't promise.

Retric 1y ago
The risk of death per year increasing with number of years lived is aging. Without that people have lived longer are more likely to have lower risks of death per year. And thus older people in such a society would on average live longer.
- dandellion 1y ago
  Unless it also cures cancer a more likely outcome is that people who get the treatment will just stay young until they get cancer and die. Also, as I understand it cancer also slows down in old age, so staying younger could mean faster cancers possibly negating some of the gains from the decreased aging.
  - Retric 1y ago
    Aging is more than just looking old. If someone has an increased risk of death per year from cancer or whatever because something is failing over time they are still aging. If the rate per year stays the same IE being 20 or 20,000 has no impact on your risks of cancer each year then someone that’s 20,000 likely takes very few other risks and is more likely to live another 20,000 years than the random 20 year old.
  - MagicMoonlight 1y ago
    Cancer is primarily caused by aging, so in this world there likely wouldn’t be much cancer outside of the deliberate cancers caused by things like smoking
    - jibal 1y ago
      This is grossly wrong. "anti-aging" treatments won't reduce people's ages and won't undo epigenetic damage. And while age is the single strongest risk factor for cancer, it isn't the "primary cause", and there are numerous non-age-related causes of cancer.
      - Retric 1y ago
        Bad “anti-aging” treatments definitely won’t do it, but they also won’t provide indefinite lifespans. > it isn't the "primary cause Only if you’re using an inaccurate definition of aging. If everyone over 20 should have the same risk of cancer as 20 years olds the total number of cancers would drop by more than half.
      - jibal 1y ago
        P.S. The response is incoherent. Talk about "inaccurate definition" ... someone has an inaccurate definition of "cause".
jibal 1y ago
Most of humanity will die in this century as a consequence of global warming, a subject that barely gets a mention at this site. There was a window of hope, but the Trump administration's policies have closed it.

bix6 1y ago

Consequences seem to not matter so we’ll just get a bunch of meths like from altered carbon.

SequoiaHope 1y ago

Without going in to spoilers, the recent season of the Revolutions podcast about a future fictional revolution on Mars touches on this a fair bit. Someone about to die seizes power for himself, but no one cares much because he was already in charge and extending his reign a few more years till he dies was no big deal, until he extends his life and lives another 75 years.

observationist 1y ago
"Putin Eternal", or something like that. Ironically, the technology will probably lead to faster, worse fates for many like that than might have been the case if they'd just left it alone.

michaelsbradley 1y ago

cf. Palpatine

heavyset_go 1y ago

The Altered Carbon universe is a manifestation of this.

ugh123 1y ago
I'm certain, at some point in the not so distant future, Neuralink will create an arm of the company to build "sleeves".
- jhallenworld 1y ago
  Altered Carbon used alien magic, the way this works in the real world will be far worse: Brain transplants. First, many poor people will need to be used as guinea pigs (a la the Sun King's anal fistula). Then once it works.. well some strapping young man (or woman!) will have to "volunteer" their body to host Elon's brain.
  - PoorlyNamed 1y ago
    Get Out.
    - cindyllm 1y ago
      [dead]
  - selcuka 1y ago
    They don't need a volunteer. They can clone themselves when they are, say, 30 year old and they will have a 100% compatible, 20 year old donor who has spent their life in suspended animation when the original is 50.
    - jhallenworld 1y ago
      No that won't do. You need someone else to prepare the body: you know... rigorous workouts for strength and physique. Ideally the person is an excellent cage fighter and has the reflexes of a top-tier video gamer.

roxolotl 1y ago

If you’re curious about fiction which thinks about this there’s Altered Carbon which is “what if the rich assholes can live forever” and there’s The Postmortal where all assholes get to live forever.

throw__away7391 1y ago

As I have gotten older I've slowly realized that waiting for people to die takes a long, long time, and no longer regard it as a good strategy.

ian-g 1y ago
Unfortunately seems to only be the case in aggregate

positron26 1y ago

I'm not an expert in psychology, but within a fixed population window, the murder rate will only go up unless there is a limited supply of those who murderers want to murder or unless murderers tend to prefer murdering other murderers, perhaps due to the change in game theory creating a new incentive. As humans would begin to live ever increasingly far away, we may approach a "murder death" condition where no new murders are possible. I will leave alone those who played Among Us until their numbers diminish and there is a better chance of reaching an early asymptote.

ben_w 1y ago

> you can't expect to die before consequences catch up to you. Many of the worst people in humanity, seem(ed) to act like they thought they were immortal. Even being grazed by a bullet didn't stop Trump praising the second amendment. (Though I say that as a non-American, and someone for whom the 2nd was part of why I never even considered attempting to migrate to the US; I do recognise the language used to support it as a quasi-religious badge of identity, i.e. hard to shake).

xethos 1y ago
> Even being grazed by a bullet didn't stop Trump praising the second amendment. This at least gives the semblance of Trump having and sticking to a set of principles (though I suspect it's more to do with what his supporters would accept)