7 ms·

It's wild to me how many people here use the "it's war, bad things happen" to justify the situation. Weird that it needs to be said, but this is why war crimes

by yibg 1y ago

It's wild to me how many people here use the "it's war, bad things happen" to justify the situation. Weird that it needs to be said, but this is why war crimes are a thing. Just because it's an armed conflict, doesn't mean anything goes.

JamesAdir 1y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > It's war initiated by Hamas Takes two to tango. Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. (No later than after Sinwar was killed.)
  - istjohn 1y ago
    Gaza has been under blockade since 2007, and the roots of the conflict date back to the founding of the Zionist Organization by Theodor Herzl in 1897 with the purpose to facilitate the escape of Jews from persecution in Eastern Europe by establishing a colony in Palestine. Israel has persecuted the indigenous people of Palestine ever since.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > the roots of the conflict date back to the founding of the Zionist Organization by Theodor Herzl in 1897 with the purpose to facilitate the escape of Jews from persecution in Eastern Europe by establishing a colony in Palestine Please, the roots of this conflict go back millenia. Nothing done in the last hundred years have helped it. And the Palestinian people keep getting fucked by outside powers using them for their own ends, whether it be the Arab countries invading Israel or Iran having their sock puppets invite bombs. But it's a bit silly to imagine that if we poofed Israel and turned Israel & Palestine into a democracy that we wouldn't, within like two minutes, start seeing missiles flying.
      - Cyph0n 1y ago
        > within like two minutes, start seeing missiles flying. And that’s worse than the current situation how exactly? In fact, it would be objectively better because there would be justice: no apartheid, no occupation, no tiered citizenship, and no blockade.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > that’s worse than the current situation how exactly? Uh, look at the civil wars in Sudan, Ethiopia and Burma. > it would be objectively better because there would be justice: no apartheid, no occupation, no tiered citizenship, and no blockade What? Why do you think changing borders on paper has any effect on how the people actually on the ground feel about and treat each other? We're not half a decade out from our withdrawal from Afghanistan and we're back to the notion that remote powers drawing lines on a map somehow dictatates reality in the Middle East?
        Cyph0n 1y ago
        First, ending an occupation and apartheid is not “changing borders”. You are maliciously oversimplifying the situation in Palestine. Second, are you seriously saying that people’s feelings have nothing to do with injustices waged upon them by force? And just to add one thing - the theoretical worsening of a situation in response to ending injustice never justifies the maintaining of said injustice. You can argue this point all you want, but it will never be true.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > ending an occupation and apartheid is not “changing borders” "Poof[ing] Israel and turned Israel & Palestine into a democracy" literally is. > are you seriously saying that people’s feelings have nothing to do with injustices waged upon them by force? Nope. > the theoretical worsening of a situation in response to ending injustice never justifies the maintaining of said injustice I'm not talking about justification. Famine is unjustified. The war is unjustified. I'm saying Y would be worse than X. That is true. It doesn't justify X. But it does make Y stupid.
  - stale2002 1y ago
    > way past where it made sense. If they don't destroy Hamas now, then a war will happen again in another 10 years. At which point 10s of thousands of palestinians will needlessly die, again. The only resolution to all of this, will happen when Hamas is completely disarmed and out of power. You can criticize how Israel goes about achieving that goal. But that goal is the only one that gets to a real, permanent peace.
    - ath3nd 1y ago
      You are basically saying that regardless of criticisms and international condemnation, Israel has no choice but commit war crimes and genocide? This is like "look what you made me do" defence in court, not sure it will save genocider Netanyahu from rotting in the Hague jail. Nor would it stop us from boycotting Israel and calling out their genocide.
      - stale2002 1y ago
        > Israel has no choice Yeah thats basically how thing will end up. Because if they dont get rid of Hamas now, they will end up in another war and end up killing 10s of thousands of more Palestinians later. Thats just what would happen. I mean, people are saying Israel is doing a genocide now right? If thats the case, why wouldn't they just do a genicide again if another October 7th happened? Obviously thats what they would do. > Nor would it stop us You don't have to stop doing anything. Just realize that they have a modern military that they are going to continue to use to kill their enemy until that enemy has surrendered or been destroyed. Thats the only way this ends. The only question is how many people have to die and how much of gaza has to be flattened in order to achieve that outcome. Boycotts aren't going to stop anything. Nor will condemnation. The only thing that would come close is serious military action, but well would you look at that, every major of enemy of Israel is now destroyed, from Syria to Hezbollah to Iran. Military action seems rather unlikely now, given how successful Israel was in obliterating every enemy it has in the area. So, the people of palestine are left with choice. Accept peace, or watch as Israel keeps killing people until Hamas is gone for good. > rotting in the Hague jail. Even if this fantasy land future did come to past, trials don't bring back the dead. If Israel has to kill another 50 thousand people to get rid of Hamas (because a peace deal with rejected), well those 50k genocide victims are still dead. The world's not turning on a dime here. Nobody is coming to save palestine. Boycotts don't stop bombs.
  - dotancohen 1y ago
    > Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. The war will continue to make sense until the hostages are returned. When Hamas believes that the war no longer makes sense, then they are invited to return the hostages and the war will end.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > war will continue to make sense until the hostages are returned Not really. Hamas should unilaterally return the hostages. They're not getting any negotiating points by keeping them. But Israel prosecuting the war as it has is permanently debilitating its long-term security and economic prospects. (Its zenith was probably after its Iranian bombing campaign. Tel Aviv should have withdrawn then and fallen back to targeted bombings of Hamas leadership.)
      - SilverElfin 1y ago
        > But Israel prosecuting the war as it has is permanently debilitating its long-term security and economic prospects. If the economic prospects are being debilitated, it is only because people are actually believing in the narrative that Hamas has hoped they’d be manipulated into believing, through a sustained campaign of disruptive rioting and propaganda - all while trying to not talk about the decades-long rocket attacks, the murder/rape of October 7, etc. But it’s silly for the world to fall for this narrative when it is clear who the aggressors are. Only one of these parties fundamentally believes in genocide of the other party - and that’s Hamas, per their own statements about their goals. As for the long-term security - this I am not clear on. Why do you think Israel’s security has been reduced? I think it will be very hard for Hamas to regroup quickly to the extent that it has been built up previously (especially thanks to Qatar’s help). But if left alone rather than stamped out, I think eventually they will build up strength and in 20 years we’ll have the next October 7. I think Israel’s only choice is to put a definitive end to Islamic terrorism.
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      Which hostages? Israel still detains several thousand Palestinians in violation of international law. There are no plans to release them or give them a fair trial, that I'm aware of.
- 4gotunameagain 1y ago
  I would go as far as to say that the very existence of Hamas is due to the actions of Israel. Do you think that Israel, with the most advanced intelligence agency in the world, capable of planting bombs in pagers just in case for when they need them, did not know about the october 7 attack beforehand ??
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Do you think that Israel, with the most advanced intelligence agency in the world, capable of planting bombs in pagers just in case for when they need them, did not know about the october 7 attack beforehand ?? Yes. Quite easily. We missed 9/11. And nobody can still find Al Houthi.
    - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
      9/11 is incomparable. The amount of resources and interest Israel has to monitor the movements of Palestinians in Gaza and elsewhere, particularly the Hamas, cannot possibly compare with US trying to keep tabs on half a continent across the globe. And finding a simple person that could be anywhere is also an incomparable situation.
      - skatingaway 1y ago
        Bush was warned about 9/11 in a memo in august. It explicitly said al qaeda was planning to use commercial planes. Bush knew.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Bush was warned about 9/11 in a memo in august. It explicitly said al qaeda was planning to use commercial planes. Bush knew You're really hanging your hat on the competence of American intelligence in the Middle East for this one?
        skatingaway 1y ago
- phgn 1y ago
  It's not, this conflict was started by Israel in 1948. The current genocide is just the most extreme phase of an ongoing, highly unequal, struggle since then. Hamas releasing hostages will not end the genocide. Look at how the last ceasefire was intentionally broken by Israel.
  - dotancohen 1y ago
    How did Israel start the war in 1948? As I understand it, the UN proposed a partition plan between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews accepted and declared a state. The Arabs did not accept, and seven Arab nations invaded the new Jewish state.
- yibg 1y ago
  This is just a variant of "it's war, bad things happen", with the addition of "they started it". Putting the debate of who started what aside, does someone starting a war justify war crimes against them? - who started what - specific conditions to end things - who agrees to what All of these are distractions. The core issues are, are there war crimes being committed or not? Is the population of Gaza starving or not? If so, is Israel actively contributing or deliberately causing the situation or not? EDIT: this is a good example of how collective punishment is being justified, to blame the population of Gaza for the actions (or inaction) of Hamas. "Well, if they just do X, then they wouldn't have to starve".
- buyucu 1y ago
  Israel has killed more civilians in a year, than Hamas has in its entire existence. This was has been initiated by Israel invading Palestine.
  - xdennis 1y ago
    The only reason more Israelis haven't died is because Israel builds bunkers and iron dome rockets to protect its civilians. Hamas builds tunnels to protect its rockets and hides among civilians. You can't compare the death of people who are willing to release 1027 terrorists to get back just one solider to the death of people who are taught from kindergarten to kill and die for Allah. [1] Nobody criticizes Britain because it killed more Nazi civilians that the Nazis killed British civilians. Back then we understood that war is between good and evil, and we didn't take the side of evil. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DMCqrgaNR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DMCqrgaNR0
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > Nobody criticizes Britain because it killed more Nazi civilians The bombing of Dresden has absolutely been condemned. British area bombing was contemporaneously criticised by America. It's why we flew our bombers in the day, despite that meaning more of them got shot down--so they could see what they'd hit.
      - exidy 1y ago
        > so they could see what they'd hit. Such as the cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Such as the cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima? You're claiming the nuking of Japan is not criticized?
        exidy 1y ago
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> wild to me how many people here use the "it's war, bad things happen" to justify the situation The point is to distinguish this war from how others have been fought. A lot of accusations against the IDF's conduct have been baseless. Not wrong in that they're factually incorrect. Just wrong in that it's how everyone else fights wars when they go to war. This is different. America didn't trigger a famine in Iraq or Afghanistan, and it's not like we fought those wars honorably. That is where it's worth answering the question, is this just war or is this worse.
- boston_clone 1y ago
  No, a lot of the accusations were not baseless; you’re using a different definition. The accusations of them deliberately shooting children in the head and targeting journalists have been proven unfortunately accurate time and time again. We must be precise in our language when describing war crimes. No wiggle room.
  - emmelaich 1y ago
    You're asking for certitude when there can never be certitude. Just as an example, if a Hamas soldier dons a PRESS vest, is he automatically immune?
    - boston_clone 1y ago
      I’m not sure if the logic on that statement checks out - there are already proven cases of what I’m describing (affirming the consequent here maybe?). In other words, so what if Hamas dons a press vest? We know the IDF have committed war crimes. They seem aware of it, too - https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-army-set-hide-soldiers-identities-media https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-army-set-hide-sol...
- estearum 1y ago
  Not really. Very very early on we knew (verifiable objective fact) that Israel used very different math on combatant:civilian casualty ratios than coalition forces in OEF and OIF. This isn't "they're waging a more intense war and accidentally killing more people" -- it is that their actual decision framework was to authorize killings with several multiples higher ratios of civilian deaths than the US authorized in the Middle East.
tdeck 1y ago
This is a typical line used by those committing a genocide, it's not unique to this one. Turkey claims the same thing about the Armenian genocide.
C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
> It's wild to me how many people here use the "it's war, bad things happen" to justify the situation Keep in mind that there is a lot of money to be made by defending Israel. Some people will take that money. Just a few citations below: - Certain social media influencers being paid up to $7000 per post [1] - Israel boosts propaganda funding by $150m to sway global opinion against genocide [2] [3] - "[...] a firm called Bridges Partners LLC has been hired to manage an influencer network under a project code-named the “Esther Project.” " [4] [1] https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-influencers-netanyahu/ https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-influencers-netanya... [2] https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/israel-boosts-propaganda-funding-150-million-sway-global-opinion-against https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/isr... [3] https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/israel-has-spent-millions-trying-win-hearts-and-minds-abroad-its-about-to-spend-20-times-more/ https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/israel-has-spent-m... [4] https://www.jta.org/2025/09/30/united-states/israels-secret-esther-project-doj-filings-reveal-paid-us-influencer-campaign-amid-ai-powered-pr-blitz https://www.jta.org/2025/09/30/united-states/israels-secret-...

by yibg 1y ago

JamesAdir 1y ago

[flagged]

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> It's war initiated by Hamas Takes two to tango. Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. (No later than after Sinwar was killed.)
- istjohn 1y ago
  Gaza has been under blockade since 2007, and the roots of the conflict date back to the founding of the Zionist Organization by Theodor Herzl in 1897 with the purpose to facilitate the escape of Jews from persecution in Eastern Europe by establishing a colony in Palestine. Israel has persecuted the indigenous people of Palestine ever since.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > the roots of the conflict date back to the founding of the Zionist Organization by Theodor Herzl in 1897 with the purpose to facilitate the escape of Jews from persecution in Eastern Europe by establishing a colony in Palestine Please, the roots of this conflict go back millenia. Nothing done in the last hundred years have helped it. And the Palestinian people keep getting fucked by outside powers using them for their own ends, whether it be the Arab countries invading Israel or Iran having their sock puppets invite bombs. But it's a bit silly to imagine that if we poofed Israel and turned Israel & Palestine into a democracy that we wouldn't, within like two minutes, start seeing missiles flying.
    - Cyph0n 1y ago
      > within like two minutes, start seeing missiles flying. And that’s worse than the current situation how exactly? In fact, it would be objectively better because there would be justice: no apartheid, no occupation, no tiered citizenship, and no blockade.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > that’s worse than the current situation how exactly? Uh, look at the civil wars in Sudan, Ethiopia and Burma. > it would be objectively better because there would be justice: no apartheid, no occupation, no tiered citizenship, and no blockade What? Why do you think changing borders on paper has any effect on how the people actually on the ground feel about and treat each other? We're not half a decade out from our withdrawal from Afghanistan and we're back to the notion that remote powers drawing lines on a map somehow dictatates reality in the Middle East?
        Cyph0n 1y ago
        First, ending an occupation and apartheid is not “changing borders”. You are maliciously oversimplifying the situation in Palestine. Second, are you seriously saying that people’s feelings have nothing to do with injustices waged upon them by force? And just to add one thing - the theoretical worsening of a situation in response to ending injustice never justifies the maintaining of said injustice. You can argue this point all you want, but it will never be true.
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > ending an occupation and apartheid is not “changing borders” "Poof[ing] Israel and turned Israel & Palestine into a democracy" literally is. > are you seriously saying that people’s feelings have nothing to do with injustices waged upon them by force? Nope. > the theoretical worsening of a situation in response to ending injustice never justifies the maintaining of said injustice I'm not talking about justification. Famine is unjustified. The war is unjustified. I'm saying Y would be worse than X. That is true. It doesn't justify X. But it does make Y stupid.
- stale2002 1y ago
  > way past where it made sense. If they don't destroy Hamas now, then a war will happen again in another 10 years. At which point 10s of thousands of palestinians will needlessly die, again. The only resolution to all of this, will happen when Hamas is completely disarmed and out of power. You can criticize how Israel goes about achieving that goal. But that goal is the only one that gets to a real, permanent peace.
  - ath3nd 1y ago
    You are basically saying that regardless of criticisms and international condemnation, Israel has no choice but commit war crimes and genocide? This is like "look what you made me do" defence in court, not sure it will save genocider Netanyahu from rotting in the Hague jail. Nor would it stop us from boycotting Israel and calling out their genocide.
    - stale2002 1y ago
      > Israel has no choice Yeah thats basically how thing will end up. Because if they dont get rid of Hamas now, they will end up in another war and end up killing 10s of thousands of more Palestinians later. Thats just what would happen. I mean, people are saying Israel is doing a genocide now right? If thats the case, why wouldn't they just do a genicide again if another October 7th happened? Obviously thats what they would do. > Nor would it stop us You don't have to stop doing anything. Just realize that they have a modern military that they are going to continue to use to kill their enemy until that enemy has surrendered or been destroyed. Thats the only way this ends. The only question is how many people have to die and how much of gaza has to be flattened in order to achieve that outcome. Boycotts aren't going to stop anything. Nor will condemnation. The only thing that would come close is serious military action, but well would you look at that, every major of enemy of Israel is now destroyed, from Syria to Hezbollah to Iran. Military action seems rather unlikely now, given how successful Israel was in obliterating every enemy it has in the area. So, the people of palestine are left with choice. Accept peace, or watch as Israel keeps killing people until Hamas is gone for good. > rotting in the Hague jail. Even if this fantasy land future did come to past, trials don't bring back the dead. If Israel has to kill another 50 thousand people to get rid of Hamas (because a peace deal with rejected), well those 50k genocide victims are still dead. The world's not turning on a dime here. Nobody is coming to save palestine. Boycotts don't stop bombs.
- dotancohen 1y ago
  > Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. The war will continue to make sense until the hostages are returned. When Hamas believes that the war no longer makes sense, then they are invited to return the hostages and the war will end.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > war will continue to make sense until the hostages are returned Not really. Hamas should unilaterally return the hostages. They're not getting any negotiating points by keeping them. But Israel prosecuting the war as it has is permanently debilitating its long-term security and economic prospects. (Its zenith was probably after its Iranian bombing campaign. Tel Aviv should have withdrawn then and fallen back to targeted bombings of Hamas leadership.)
    - SilverElfin 1y ago
      > But Israel prosecuting the war as it has is permanently debilitating its long-term security and economic prospects. If the economic prospects are being debilitated, it is only because people are actually believing in the narrative that Hamas has hoped they’d be manipulated into believing, through a sustained campaign of disruptive rioting and propaganda - all while trying to not talk about the decades-long rocket attacks, the murder/rape of October 7, etc. But it’s silly for the world to fall for this narrative when it is clear who the aggressors are. Only one of these parties fundamentally believes in genocide of the other party - and that’s Hamas, per their own statements about their goals. As for the long-term security - this I am not clear on. Why do you think Israel’s security has been reduced? I think it will be very hard for Hamas to regroup quickly to the extent that it has been built up previously (especially thanks to Qatar’s help). But if left alone rather than stamped out, I think eventually they will build up strength and in 20 years we’ll have the next October 7. I think Israel’s only choice is to put a definitive end to Islamic terrorism.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    Which hostages? Israel still detains several thousand Palestinians in violation of international law. There are no plans to release them or give them a fair trial, that I'm aware of.
4gotunameagain 1y ago
I would go as far as to say that the very existence of Hamas is due to the actions of Israel. Do you think that Israel, with the most advanced intelligence agency in the world, capable of planting bombs in pagers just in case for when they need them, did not know about the october 7 attack beforehand ??
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Do you think that Israel, with the most advanced intelligence agency in the world, capable of planting bombs in pagers just in case for when they need them, did not know about the october 7 attack beforehand ?? Yes. Quite easily. We missed 9/11. And nobody can still find Al Houthi.
  - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
    9/11 is incomparable. The amount of resources and interest Israel has to monitor the movements of Palestinians in Gaza and elsewhere, particularly the Hamas, cannot possibly compare with US trying to keep tabs on half a continent across the globe. And finding a simple person that could be anywhere is also an incomparable situation.
    - skatingaway 1y ago
      Bush was warned about 9/11 in a memo in august. It explicitly said al qaeda was planning to use commercial planes. Bush knew.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Bush was warned about 9/11 in a memo in august. It explicitly said al qaeda was planning to use commercial planes. Bush knew You're really hanging your hat on the competence of American intelligence in the Middle East for this one?
        skatingaway 1y ago
phgn 1y ago
It's not, this conflict was started by Israel in 1948. The current genocide is just the most extreme phase of an ongoing, highly unequal, struggle since then. Hamas releasing hostages will not end the genocide. Look at how the last ceasefire was intentionally broken by Israel.
- dotancohen 1y ago
  How did Israel start the war in 1948? As I understand it, the UN proposed a partition plan between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews accepted and declared a state. The Arabs did not accept, and seven Arab nations invaded the new Jewish state.
yibg 1y ago
This is just a variant of "it's war, bad things happen", with the addition of "they started it". Putting the debate of who started what aside, does someone starting a war justify war crimes against them? - who started what - specific conditions to end things - who agrees to what All of these are distractions. The core issues are, are there war crimes being committed or not? Is the population of Gaza starving or not? If so, is Israel actively contributing or deliberately causing the situation or not? EDIT: this is a good example of how collective punishment is being justified, to blame the population of Gaza for the actions (or inaction) of Hamas. "Well, if they just do X, then they wouldn't have to starve".
buyucu 1y ago
Israel has killed more civilians in a year, than Hamas has in its entire existence. This was has been initiated by Israel invading Palestine.
- xdennis 1y ago
  The only reason more Israelis haven't died is because Israel builds bunkers and iron dome rockets to protect its civilians. Hamas builds tunnels to protect its rockets and hides among civilians. You can't compare the death of people who are willing to release 1027 terrorists to get back just one solider to the death of people who are taught from kindergarten to kill and die for Allah. [1] Nobody criticizes Britain because it killed more Nazi civilians that the Nazis killed British civilians. Back then we understood that war is between good and evil, and we didn't take the side of evil. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DMCqrgaNR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DMCqrgaNR0
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Nobody criticizes Britain because it killed more Nazi civilians The bombing of Dresden has absolutely been condemned. British area bombing was contemporaneously criticised by America. It's why we flew our bombers in the day, despite that meaning more of them got shot down--so they could see what they'd hit.
    - exidy 1y ago
      > so they could see what they'd hit. Such as the cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > Such as the cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima? You're claiming the nuking of Japan is not criticized?
        exidy 1y ago

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> wild to me how many people here use the "it's war, bad things happen" to justify the situation The point is to distinguish this war from how others have been fought. A lot of accusations against the IDF's conduct have been baseless. Not wrong in that they're factually incorrect. Just wrong in that it's how everyone else fights wars when they go to war. This is different. America didn't trigger a famine in Iraq or Afghanistan, and it's not like we fought those wars honorably. That is where it's worth answering the question, is this just war or is this worse.

boston_clone 1y ago
No, a lot of the accusations were not baseless; you’re using a different definition. The accusations of them deliberately shooting children in the head and targeting journalists have been proven unfortunately accurate time and time again. We must be precise in our language when describing war crimes. No wiggle room.
- emmelaich 1y ago
  You're asking for certitude when there can never be certitude. Just as an example, if a Hamas soldier dons a PRESS vest, is he automatically immune?
  - boston_clone 1y ago
    I’m not sure if the logic on that statement checks out - there are already proven cases of what I’m describing (affirming the consequent here maybe?). In other words, so what if Hamas dons a press vest? We know the IDF have committed war crimes. They seem aware of it, too - https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-army-set-hide-soldiers-identities-media https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-army-set-hide-sol...
estearum 1y ago
Not really. Very very early on we knew (verifiable objective fact) that Israel used very different math on combatant:civilian casualty ratios than coalition forces in OEF and OIF. This isn't "they're waging a more intense war and accidentally killing more people" -- it is that their actual decision framework was to authorize killings with several multiples higher ratios of civilian deaths than the US authorized in the Middle East.

tdeck 1y ago

This is a typical line used by those committing a genocide, it's not unique to this one. Turkey claims the same thing about the Armenian genocide.

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago

> It's wild to me how many people here use the "it's war, bad things happen" to justify the situation Keep in mind that there is a lot of money to be made by defending Israel. Some people will take that money. Just a few citations below: - Certain social media influencers being paid up to $7000 per post [1] - Israel boosts propaganda funding by $150m to sway global opinion against genocide [2] [3] - "[...] a firm called Bridges Partners LLC has been hired to manage an influencer network under a project code-named the “Esther Project.” " [4] [1] https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-influencers-netanyahu/ https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-influencers-netanya... [2] https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/israel-boosts-propaganda-funding-150-million-sway-global-opinion-against https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/isr... [3] https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/israel-has-spent-millions-trying-win-hearts-and-minds-abroad-its-about-to-spend-20-times-more/ https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/israel-has-spent-m... [4] https://www.jta.org/2025/09/30/united-states/israels-secret-esther-project-doj-filings-reveal-paid-us-influencer-campaign-amid-ai-powered-pr-blitz https://www.jta.org/2025/09/30/united-states/israels-secret-...