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People sometimes forget how bitterly divided Israel was before October 7th, with hundreds of thousands of people protesting in the streets. The war put some of
by justin66 1y ago
People sometimes forget how bitterly divided Israel was before October 7th, with hundreds of thousands of people protesting in the streets. The war put some of the infighting on hold for a while, but all the former problems still exist, and the stakes are higher.
- frank_nitti 1y agoEven Charlie Kirk, of all people, was talking about this (ignore the clickbait video title): https://youtu.be/3wUq3t9f6ug?si=nV_NukcsjHZgj0MT https://youtu.be/3wUq3t9f6ug?si=nV_NukcsjHZgj0MT
- TrnsltLife 1y agoOf all people?
- washadjeffmad 1y agoI just googled this: https://www.scribd.com/document/924955773/Kirk-Letter https://www.scribd.com/document/924955773/Kirk-Letter
- LightBug1 1y agoI don't know much about Charlie Kirk except what I've read recently. But he does/did seem to be part of a growing element of the right in the USA who stand against Israel and Netanyahu specifically. And while I support that, I don't think it's necessarily to support Palestinians, but more as an America First policy. In that context, "of all people" makes sense to me. I too have been surprised by the move, of some on the right, against Israel, considering their almost unanimous support previously.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> I too have been surprised by the move, of some on the right, against Israel, considering their almost unanimous support previously The right is not a monolith. Various elements on the right have always been anti-Israel, from the non-interventionists to the straight-up racists. Kirk was one of the former.
- clanky 1y agoKirk is on video making a joke about how he used to tell leftists, "they would throw you off a tall building in Gaza," but now there are no tall buildings in Gaza (hyuk hyuk), because of those "stupid Muslims attacking Jews." As the genocide has become more and more indefensible, many right wing water carriers (also including Tucker Carlson) have been peeling off and voicing occasional (but essentially harmless) criticisms of the relationship. It's more cynicism than principle.
- LightBug1 1y agoYes, I tend to agree. I get the feeling of an undertone of antisemitism and America First rather than any sympathy for the Palestinian people. And the more I've read into Kirk, the more disgusted I've been. Obviously, that doesn't justify what happened to him, but he definitely isn't some kind of saviour and hero he's been made out to be after his death. Watching him effectively being made into a saint has been mildly nauseating.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- emmelaich 1y agoYou be aware of this study indicating more diversity of opinion on the right vs left. https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bjso.12665 https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bjso....
- tdb7893 1y agoFor context these are the questions asked since obviously this claim will change a lot based on questions. I wouldn't say it's terribly surprising based on my experiences, I've met Republicans against a lot of these things. I'm also wondering a bit how they got their sample since they had way more Democrats than Republicans and how representative it is (it also didn't close to match the racial makeup of the US). Not hating on the study, I didn't spend enough time reading it to know it's effectiveness, mainly the actual questions seemed important. Item 1) Abortion should be illegal. Item 2) The government should take steps to make incomes more equal. Item 3) All unauthorized immigrants should be sent back to their home country. Item 4) The federal budget for welfare programs should be increased. Item 5) Lesbian, gay and trans couples should be allowed to legally marry. Item 6) The government should regulate business to protect the environment. Item 7) The federal government should make it more difficult to buy a gun. Item 8) The federal government should make a concerted effort to improve social and economic conditions for African Americans. Edit: to be clear I read the study and they used Prolific (https://www.prolific.com/ https://www.prolific.com/) to get the participants but that means nothing to me.
- frank_nitti 1y agoYes https://youtube.com/shorts/nNfDr18C6H4?si=CKalCaG0DMUP3rZZ https://youtube.com/shorts/nNfDr18C6H4?si=CKalCaG0DMUP3rZZ This and my original comment apparently struck a nerve for some people, but I’m just sharing what I observe from the links I’ve included. I’d love to see some actual response to the content of these videos given Kirk’s apparent change of heart on Israel (especially if I’m off-base) as opposed to just downvotes with substance-free responses
- mk89 1y ago[flagged]
- sebastiennight 1y ago> So I guess USA is now gonna make war against Mexico/Canada, because they are divided? Don't give them ideas. Once they are finished with Portland, LA and NYC, Canada is just next door
- nmz 1y agoForgot chicago
- cogman10 1y agoThe US was the victim of a terror attack at 9/11. It became the bad guy by invading Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years using one terrorist attack as the justification. You could argue Israel's right to strike back on Oct 8th, 15th, 31. That justification has vanished as the onslaught has continued. 2 years later. Yes, Israel is the bad guy for committing genocide. Being the target of a terrorist attack doesn't give a country the right to wage war on civilians.
- pmarreck 1y ago[flagged]
- mk89 1y agoUSA tried to establish themselves in those lands also to prevent future terror attacks, which I think they did. It's questionable if it was worth it or the right thing to do, but in the meantime, you guys in the USA didn't have a single terror attack afterwards, or? (I can't remember to be honest) What would a single Israel's strike on the 8th of October etc have done? They got 100+ hostages, some are still there btw after 2 years, and there is proof that the civilians knew about it and actually supported it. People still support Hamas and still believe they will win. Without mentioning that those people (the civilians, yes) supported that s** that "Hamas" had done on the 7th of October - there is plenty of evidence for it. Interesting link: https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/997 https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/997
- ciconia 1y agoThe division is not about the starvation of Gaza. All Zionist parties in the Israeli parliament support the military campaign in Gaza. Apart from some lip-service from left-wing leaders, to my knowledge no Jewish leader has spoken against the starvation. Israeli media (except for Haaretz) have largely denied that there is a famine, and have called it a "propaganda campaign" by the Hamas.
- abrenuntio 1y agoSome Orthodox Jews are very active against it, on very sound religious grounds.
- kergonath 1y ago[flagged]
- dang 1y agoNo religious flamewar, please, no matter how many flames are burning already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- wat10000 1y agoPretty sure there's some commandment about this.
- ebbi 1y agoThey're a very tiny minority, and unfortunately they also get harrassed by Zionist Israelis
- culi 1y agoAbout 22% of Israel is orthodox and about 13% can be called "ultra-orthodox". They play a major role in politics. Most prominently and recently, the 8-decade long exemption from the draft for Haredi Jewish people was ended causing a major crisis in Israel's government. All Haredi representatives of the Knesset withdrew leaving Netanyahu's party's majority with a razor thin margin of 61 seats in the 120-seat Knesset
- ignoramous 1y ago> how bitterly divided Israel was before October 7th ... people protesting in the streets. The war put some of the infighting on hold ... the stakes are higher What are the factors that transform a society that is generally decent, even if not free from flaws, into a society devoid of any moral restraints, into a multitude that wallows in the dubious pleasure of its cohesion and unity, indifferent to suffering, completely closed to others? The victims of the Nazis' knowledge were indeed the Jews. Nazi anti-Semitism was indeed particularly destructive and murderous. But the Nazis disregarded human life wherever it was. The extermination of hundreds of thousands of Russian prisoners of war is just another example, but their attitude towards their own army, on the Stalingrad front for example, was also devoid of any human consideration. Hitler did indeed lead these moves, but only here and there did anyone voice a complaint or reservation. With the outbreak of the war, the spirit of those who could truly resist was completely broken. Is it really that easy to break the spirit? How does that happen? Few history books deal with this. Huffner tries to explain, and even if he is not always convincing and does not see everything, this experience of his, so close to the moment of truth in Europe on the eve of the outbreak of World War II, is unique and one of a kind. I believe that even in our time and even in our places, it is worthy of in-depth study. - Shulamit Volkov (afterword to "The Story of a German" by Sebastian Huffner).
- hackandthink 1y agoHuffner is Haffner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Haffner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Haffner
- JamesAdir 1y ago[flagged]
- zelphirkalt 1y agoWhich is probably one of the reasons, why they escalated the conflict out of proportion in the first place.