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Because it doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly k

Because it doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now. Why would you assume that being able to escape with their lives is suddenly more important to them?

Ray20 1y ago
> doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. From Hamas?
- chimineycricket 1y ago
  From the people killing them in places where Hamas has no control and building illegal settlements on their land.
  - FridayoLeary 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - lejalv 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - RS-232 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - abrenuntio 1y ago
      No. The Bible says nothing about a European secular nationalist movement called Zionism. Certainly nothing positive.
    - VerminOctopus1 1y ago
      [flagged]
myth_drannon 1y ago
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- nielsbot 1y ago
  The Israelis (and their suppliers) are the ones with the power to end it. They have chosen this. There are actually other avenues you know. This is entirely on them.
  - myth_drannon 1y ago
    What do you mean? Trump's plan to end the war, Israel has accepted it. Now Palestinians will probably refuse it. Why refuse the end of the war and the "genocide"? It's like they demanded a country, but when the country was offered multiple times, they refused it because what they actually want is to destroy Israel and not build their own country.
    - nielsbot 1y ago
      Which offers?
  - oytis 1y ago
    Like, not at all? They tried to withdraw from Gaza, and preferred to educate their population on living under daily rocket attacks just to avoid waging a war in Gaza. It all dragged on with no hope for a permanent peace and culminated in the October massacre. Hamas on the other hand does indeed have the power to end it all - if not with all their dreams and wishes being fulfilled - which is a pretty outrageous expectation for the losing party
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      Weird how you are commenting like Israel is some western democracy when they're run by Zionist extremists that have the goal of taking over the area.
      - 1y ago
flyinglizard 1y ago
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- deleted 1y ago
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- deleted 1y ago
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- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
  Rhodesia was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. Apartheid South Africa was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. French Algeria was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. When Israel gets similarly "destroyed", and it is no longer a supremacist colonial state, and the people who remain are living with equal rights, it will be for the better. Everyone other than colonists and white supremacists understand this. If yoru country was colonized by outside invaders, you would understand anti-colonial struggle perfectly well.
  - flyinglizard 1y ago
    What an interesting historical stretch to call Jews "invaders" in Israel, when the entire place is riddled with Jewish history and artefacts dating back thousands of years. While Rhodesia and South Africa were colonial experiments by people with no prior connection to Africa, that's not the case with Israel. Since the onset of told history there were Jews in that area.
    - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
      Yes, many thousands of years ago the land was populated by Jewish peoples. Then Romans sacked Jerusalem and kicked them all out. The Eastern Roman empire never reversed that ban. After the muslim conquest of Levant in about 630 AD, caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab lifted the Christian ban on Jews entering Jerusalem some time later during his reign. After a millenium of mixing and slow but gradual conversion to the dominant socio-cultural muslim group, we know that the Jewish population of Palestine at the time (1917) that the British government initiated the process of handing over Palestine to jews in return for Lord Rothschild's money that they needed to keep fighting WW1 [1], was only about 7%. Subsequent immigration of mostly European jews into Palestine, resulted in about 30% jewish population by the time Western powers decided to declare an independent Jewish-dominated state of Israel on top of Palestine in 1947. The vast majority of the current jewish population of Israel are absolutely foreign invaders and their second or third generation descendants. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
oytis 1y ago
I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me - Nazis didn't enjoy the same privilege
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
  > I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? And then what? Look at the West Bank to see what happens when you don't resist the occupation and fully cooperate with the colonial state. You get slowly cleansed anyway. > Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me Israel specializes in assassinations and has a history of relentlessly pursuing those it deems its enemies. If you were a Hamas fighter, your choice would be to either die fighting for a purpose, or be killed in exile without a purpose anymore.
  - oytis 1y ago
    Settler violence in the West Bank sure sucks, but in my opinion less than Hamas regime and war in Gaza, both for Israelis and Palestinians. Valid point for the safety of Hamas members though, would be hard to come up with an arrangement that convinces them that they are going to be safe
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now Hamas has. If you put this deal to a plebescite in Gaza, do you really think they'd vote for more war?
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
  Yes, Hamas (and all the other resistance factions that are active in Gaza). The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" My answer was perfectly within the scope of the original question.
- LinXitoW 1y ago
  If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom?
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom? Yes? Just so I understand the hypothetical, the Jewish resistance in Nazi Germany (not really a singular thing, but I'll read this as the French Resistance and ghetto leaders) are offered amnesty, i.e. an end to the Holocaust, in exchange for literally anything? Why wouldn't they take it? It's literally a choice between life and death. And again, it gives time for regrouping, clear thinking, rallying support. Turning it down seems to scream that the offer, in this hypothetical an end to the Holocaust, in our timeline a ceasefire, isn't actually that important. At that point, both sides are choosing to fight. European Jews didn't choose the Holocaust. I don't think Palestinians are choosing this war, but if they turned down a peace deal, they by definition are.
stale2002 1y ago
> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy Thats not true at all. Most people in palestine do not want to throw their lives away for nothing. Most of them want peace. Its only Hamas that would apparently prefer to get killed and have gaza be flattened instead of accepting peace.
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
  The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" Your responding that what I wrote is "not true at all" makes no sense in the context.

Ray20 1y ago

> doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. From Hamas?

chimineycricket 1y ago
From the people killing them in places where Hamas has no control and building illegal settlements on their land.
- FridayoLeary 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - lejalv 1y ago
    [flagged]
- RS-232 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - abrenuntio 1y ago
    No. The Bible says nothing about a European secular nationalist movement called Zionism. Certainly nothing positive.
  - VerminOctopus1 1y ago
    [flagged]

myth_drannon 1y ago

[flagged]

nielsbot 1y ago
The Israelis (and their suppliers) are the ones with the power to end it. They have chosen this. There are actually other avenues you know. This is entirely on them.
- myth_drannon 1y ago
  What do you mean? Trump's plan to end the war, Israel has accepted it. Now Palestinians will probably refuse it. Why refuse the end of the war and the "genocide"? It's like they demanded a country, but when the country was offered multiple times, they refused it because what they actually want is to destroy Israel and not build their own country.
  - nielsbot 1y ago
    Which offers?
- oytis 1y ago
  Like, not at all? They tried to withdraw from Gaza, and preferred to educate their population on living under daily rocket attacks just to avoid waging a war in Gaza. It all dragged on with no hope for a permanent peace and culminated in the October massacre. Hamas on the other hand does indeed have the power to end it all - if not with all their dreams and wishes being fulfilled - which is a pretty outrageous expectation for the losing party
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    Weird how you are commenting like Israel is some western democracy when they're run by Zionist extremists that have the goal of taking over the area.
    - 1y ago

flyinglizard 1y ago

[flagged]

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
deleted 1y ago
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C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
Rhodesia was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. Apartheid South Africa was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. French Algeria was "destroyed", and the outcome was for the better. When Israel gets similarly "destroyed", and it is no longer a supremacist colonial state, and the people who remain are living with equal rights, it will be for the better. Everyone other than colonists and white supremacists understand this. If yoru country was colonized by outside invaders, you would understand anti-colonial struggle perfectly well.
- flyinglizard 1y ago
  What an interesting historical stretch to call Jews "invaders" in Israel, when the entire place is riddled with Jewish history and artefacts dating back thousands of years. While Rhodesia and South Africa were colonial experiments by people with no prior connection to Africa, that's not the case with Israel. Since the onset of told history there were Jews in that area.
  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
    Yes, many thousands of years ago the land was populated by Jewish peoples. Then Romans sacked Jerusalem and kicked them all out. The Eastern Roman empire never reversed that ban. After the muslim conquest of Levant in about 630 AD, caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab lifted the Christian ban on Jews entering Jerusalem some time later during his reign. After a millenium of mixing and slow but gradual conversion to the dominant socio-cultural muslim group, we know that the Jewish population of Palestine at the time (1917) that the British government initiated the process of handing over Palestine to jews in return for Lord Rothschild's money that they needed to keep fighting WW1 [1], was only about 7%. Subsequent immigration of mostly European jews into Palestine, resulted in about 30% jewish population by the time Western powers decided to declare an independent Jewish-dominated state of Israel on top of Palestine in 1947. The vast majority of the current jewish population of Israel are absolutely foreign invaders and their second or third generation descendants. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

oytis 1y ago

I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me - Nazis didn't enjoy the same privilege

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
> I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? And then what? Look at the West Bank to see what happens when you don't resist the occupation and fully cooperate with the colonial state. You get slowly cleansed anyway. > Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me Israel specializes in assassinations and has a history of relentlessly pursuing those it deems its enemies. If you were a Hamas fighter, your choice would be to either die fighting for a purpose, or be killed in exile without a purpose anymore.
- oytis 1y ago
  Settler violence in the West Bank sure sucks, but in my opinion less than Hamas regime and war in Gaza, both for Israelis and Palestinians. Valid point for the safety of Hamas members though, would be hard to come up with an arrangement that convinces them that they are going to be safe

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now Hamas has. If you put this deal to a plebescite in Gaza, do you really think they'd vote for more war?

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
Yes, Hamas (and all the other resistance factions that are active in Gaza). The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" My answer was perfectly within the scope of the original question.
LinXitoW 1y ago
If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > If you gave the jewish resistance in Nazi Germany the same deal, would you be just as suprised if they continued to fight for total freedom? Yes? Just so I understand the hypothetical, the Jewish resistance in Nazi Germany (not really a singular thing, but I'll read this as the French Resistance and ghetto leaders) are offered amnesty, i.e. an end to the Holocaust, in exchange for literally anything? Why wouldn't they take it? It's literally a choice between life and death. And again, it gives time for regrouping, clear thinking, rallying support. Turning it down seems to scream that the offer, in this hypothetical an end to the Holocaust, in our timeline a ceasefire, isn't actually that important. At that point, both sides are choosing to fight. European Jews didn't choose the Holocaust. I don't think Palestinians are choosing this war, but if they turned down a peace deal, they by definition are.

stale2002 1y ago

> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy Thats not true at all. Most people in palestine do not want to throw their lives away for nothing. Most of them want peace. Its only Hamas that would apparently prefer to get killed and have gaza be flattened instead of accepting peace.

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 1y ago
The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" Your responding that what I wrote is "not true at all" makes no sense in the context.