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That's a fair point. My first job was retail, and I was accidentally late for a shift _once_ and I got put on probation for weeks and wasn't even allowed to tak

That's a fair point. My first job was retail, and I was accidentally late for a shift _once_ and I got put on probation for weeks and wasn't even allowed to take sick leave during the probationary period. The better the job the less you're treated like trash. People float all sorts of explanations for why this would be, but I think fundamentally people just don't know how to move away from class hierarchy. I think it's built into us.

orisho 1y ago
I believe it's because if you are easily replaceable, then screwing up means you're not worth the trouble. If you aren't easily replaceable (whether it's because you have demonstrated you're a good employee or you're working a high-demand role), you are worth the trouble and you'll get more chances. There are other reasons too, such as jurisdictions where suing after being laid off is more common, which makes more chances, PIP and severance packages more likely.
- pixl97 1y ago
  >I believe it's because if you are easily replaceable, then screwing up means you're not worth the trouble. These ideas work great when you have a large/growing labor population, we're seeing it start to fall apart in a tight/shrinking labor population. "nobody wants to work" is the drum beat of the employers that used to burn employes.
  - rmah 1y ago
    Well, then they're not easily replaceable. Which implies those workers have other options. And thus employers that treat workers worse than other employers will see workers leave and/or find it harder or more expensive to hire. So it all works out.
    - array_key_first 1y ago
      It all works out, unless everyone is doing it, and then entire swaths of the economy just burn down. In lower level jobs like retail and food service, nobody can retain workers. You would think then "oh, labor market, the cost of labor goes up" But no. Everyone is greedy, stubborn, and stupid. Instead, you just run your business with half the labor. Does it work? Not really. So then you think, "oh, well free market dynamics. These companies will go out of business because their product or service sucks" But no! Because everyone is doing it! And now everything just sucks!
      - danbolt 1y ago
        I promise I’m not that whiggish when it comes to automation, but there was a time when a good portion of human labour was washing clothing, and now that’s become much less of a thing for much of the world. Perhaps food service and in-person retail will start to go that way too. It’s my hope we can navigate that and still make a place where it won’t be so bad.
        array_key_first 1y ago
        Most of the automating in retail isn't even automation, it's just corporate laziness. They're passing their job off to their own customers. Why am I bagging groceries? Am I on your payroll? Great, you put in a machine and replaced half your workers. Expect you replace them with me, your customers. The machine is just for kicks.
        danbolt 1y ago
        Sometimes we do our own laundry, sometimes we pump our own gas, and sometimes we prepare our own meals. Not having a servant to do those things for us doesn’t make us destitute; it makes us human.
        array_key_first 1y ago
        It's not a "servant", it's a service. Why don't I cut my own hair? Because I'm shit at it. If you went to a barber, and you sat down for a haircut, and they handed you a pair of clippers, would you go back? Fuck no! The problem with having customers do their own checkout isn't that the fat and lazy customers have to get off their fat asses. No. It's that customers are unbelievably shit at that. Have you noticed that, despite there being, like 10x as many self checkout lanes than before, the lines are longer than ever? Go ahead and do the math on that. Not only are people doing more work, they're paying more for it too, and it's a much worse service. Lose, lose, lose. Unless you're the corporate overlords.
rgblambda 1y ago
Often I hear "I wouldn't take a higher paying job. It's not worth the stress". But I find the opposite to be true. The better paid the job, the less that's expected of you.
- ElevenLathe 1y ago
  This is what you say when you don't want to tell your boss that moving into management means becoming a class traitor.

orisho 1y ago

I believe it's because if you are easily replaceable, then screwing up means you're not worth the trouble. If you aren't easily replaceable (whether it's because you have demonstrated you're a good employee or you're working a high-demand role), you are worth the trouble and you'll get more chances. There are other reasons too, such as jurisdictions where suing after being laid off is more common, which makes more chances, PIP and severance packages more likely.

pixl97 1y ago
>I believe it's because if you are easily replaceable, then screwing up means you're not worth the trouble. These ideas work great when you have a large/growing labor population, we're seeing it start to fall apart in a tight/shrinking labor population. "nobody wants to work" is the drum beat of the employers that used to burn employes.
- rmah 1y ago
  Well, then they're not easily replaceable. Which implies those workers have other options. And thus employers that treat workers worse than other employers will see workers leave and/or find it harder or more expensive to hire. So it all works out.
  - array_key_first 1y ago
    It all works out, unless everyone is doing it, and then entire swaths of the economy just burn down. In lower level jobs like retail and food service, nobody can retain workers. You would think then "oh, labor market, the cost of labor goes up" But no. Everyone is greedy, stubborn, and stupid. Instead, you just run your business with half the labor. Does it work? Not really. So then you think, "oh, well free market dynamics. These companies will go out of business because their product or service sucks" But no! Because everyone is doing it! And now everything just sucks!
    - danbolt 1y ago
      I promise I’m not that whiggish when it comes to automation, but there was a time when a good portion of human labour was washing clothing, and now that’s become much less of a thing for much of the world. Perhaps food service and in-person retail will start to go that way too. It’s my hope we can navigate that and still make a place where it won’t be so bad.
      - array_key_first 1y ago
        Most of the automating in retail isn't even automation, it's just corporate laziness. They're passing their job off to their own customers. Why am I bagging groceries? Am I on your payroll? Great, you put in a machine and replaced half your workers. Expect you replace them with me, your customers. The machine is just for kicks.
        danbolt 1y ago
        Sometimes we do our own laundry, sometimes we pump our own gas, and sometimes we prepare our own meals. Not having a servant to do those things for us doesn’t make us destitute; it makes us human.
        array_key_first 1y ago
        It's not a "servant", it's a service. Why don't I cut my own hair? Because I'm shit at it. If you went to a barber, and you sat down for a haircut, and they handed you a pair of clippers, would you go back? Fuck no! The problem with having customers do their own checkout isn't that the fat and lazy customers have to get off their fat asses. No. It's that customers are unbelievably shit at that. Have you noticed that, despite there being, like 10x as many self checkout lanes than before, the lines are longer than ever? Go ahead and do the math on that. Not only are people doing more work, they're paying more for it too, and it's a much worse service. Lose, lose, lose. Unless you're the corporate overlords.

rgblambda 1y ago

Often I hear "I wouldn't take a higher paying job. It's not worth the stress". But I find the opposite to be true. The better paid the job, the less that's expected of you.

ElevenLathe 1y ago
This is what you say when you don't want to tell your boss that moving into management means becoming a class traitor.