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> Students - domestic or international - deserve a campus where they can explore new ideas without fear of reprisal at home or abroad. That's a bit naive in to

> Students - domestic or international - deserve a campus where they can explore new ideas without fear of reprisal at home or abroad. That's a bit naive in today's world. Not every person who identifies as a student is there with the best of intentions, or without ulterior motives, some even being directed by foreign governments. To make them off limits from scrutiny, is to leave your door wide open, and susceptible to abuse and manipulation by enemies.

stego-tech 1y ago
I’m talking undergrad campuses, not research departments (which is often where this critique is lobbed towards). Obviously students engaged with sensitive research should have a higher degree of accountability, but undergrads should be permitted to engage freely with the marketplace of ideas to understand the advantages and disadvantages of different positions, cooperation across ideologies, and how to effectively combat harmful ideas without resorting to violence.
- quantummagic 1y ago
  Foreign "spies" and agents can identify as undergrads just easily as people in more sensitive areas. Not everyone who calls themselves a student is pure of heart and there just for the pursuit of knowledge and personal development.
  - stego-tech 1y ago
    I refuse to engage in surveillance just to satisfy a hypothetical bad actor when it comes to freedom of speech, and I will not abdicate that position. Take your neo-McCarthyism to someone less firm in their support of free speech as to believe hypothetical spies warrant constant surveillance of innocents.
    - quantummagic 1y ago
      Very naive. You're putting a gaping hole in your countries defenses. There's nothing wrong with foreign visitors being subject to extra security; to ensure that they are operating within acceptable bounds, and if not, having their visitor status revoked.
    - tencentshill 1y ago
      Far from hypothetical, it's happening in the UK on behalf of China https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvn308789go https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvn308789go What do you propose should be done to stop that? Ban all Chinese students from applying or communicating with home?
BeetleB 1y ago
> Not every person who identifies as a student is there with the best of intentions, or without ulterior motives, some even being directed by foreign governments. The "being directed by foreign governments" was an issue even when I went to school a few decades ago. I see nothing that warrants a sudden change now compared to then.

stego-tech 1y ago

I’m talking undergrad campuses, not research departments (which is often where this critique is lobbed towards). Obviously students engaged with sensitive research should have a higher degree of accountability, but undergrads should be permitted to engage freely with the marketplace of ideas to understand the advantages and disadvantages of different positions, cooperation across ideologies, and how to effectively combat harmful ideas without resorting to violence.

quantummagic 1y ago
Foreign "spies" and agents can identify as undergrads just easily as people in more sensitive areas. Not everyone who calls themselves a student is pure of heart and there just for the pursuit of knowledge and personal development.
- stego-tech 1y ago
  I refuse to engage in surveillance just to satisfy a hypothetical bad actor when it comes to freedom of speech, and I will not abdicate that position. Take your neo-McCarthyism to someone less firm in their support of free speech as to believe hypothetical spies warrant constant surveillance of innocents.
  - quantummagic 1y ago
    Very naive. You're putting a gaping hole in your countries defenses. There's nothing wrong with foreign visitors being subject to extra security; to ensure that they are operating within acceptable bounds, and if not, having their visitor status revoked.
  - tencentshill 1y ago
    Far from hypothetical, it's happening in the UK on behalf of China https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvn308789go https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvn308789go What do you propose should be done to stop that? Ban all Chinese students from applying or communicating with home?

BeetleB 1y ago

> Not every person who identifies as a student is there with the best of intentions, or without ulterior motives, some even being directed by foreign governments. The "being directed by foreign governments" was an issue even when I went to school a few decades ago. I see nothing that warrants a sudden change now compared to then.