5 ms·

Didn't their change their licensing or something and now folks are leaving? I've seen a few ex-N8n'ers coming over to the Node-RED forum, hence the question.

tarun_anand 1y ago
Keep to know how people are using it inspite of the licensing issues. Langflow seems good?
- nextworddev 1y ago
  Langflow was more painful than a wisdom tooth extraction to use. This was back in early 2025 tho
  - Towaway69 1y ago
    I would recommend Node-RED but that's a lot more work than a Zapier or N8n but you can do more with it - Node-RED abstraction level is closer to a programming language than a SaaS combinatorial tool. Depends on what you want to achieve and how much effort you want to apply.
cyrnel 1y ago
+1 for Node-RED. If we've learned anything from elasticsearch/redis/bitnami/and dozens of others, it should be "don't build important things on code that isn't enshittification-resistant"
- echelon 1y ago
  What did elasticsearch/redis do so wrong? AWS and Google stole their only revenue source. Those guys did all the work and AWS and Google get to collect a cool hundred million each quarter for doing next to nothing. And the original authors can't compete with that. Are we all gonna go sign up to "Enterprise Redis Cloud" to support them? I don't think so. They have nothing left. They got picked dry. If they're preserved a "no managed offerings" freedom for themselves, they could collect a few hundred million from each hyperscaler each quarter and put that directly into product. And their engineers would be extra nicely compensated. But that's not how this story plays out. Big tech just takes things and finds out how to monetize them in ways they don't have to give back. And we've been trained (by big tech?) to yell at the little guys that try to carve out a space for themselves.
  - cyrnel 1y ago
    Both are billion dollar companies, we as individuals have nothing in common with them. Enshittification happens due to market conditions that apply to small and large companies alike. Redis and elasticsearch aren't underdogs fighting for the little guy, they are just a smaller scale version of the same shit. I'd rather have a software commons and have tech be owned by the workers and not soul-sucking corporations, no matter the size.
    - rixed 1y ago
      Sure, so would I. I would also prefer to live in a world without borders. Meanwhile, I'm just a peace activist. Life in this imperfect Earth makes you grumpy too early if you are not pragmatic.
akudha 1y ago
ActivePieces is also an option
rglover 1y ago
Hadn't heard of Node-RED but this is really cool. Thanks for mentioning it.
andrewmutz 1y ago
Yet more evidence that venture capital is basically incompatible with open source software. It's just a matter of time before any VC-backed open source company betrays its users.
- JimDabell 1y ago
  n8n was never open source. They started out using Apache with a non-free clause added, but they called themselves open-source incorrectly. Then when this became more widely known, they stopped calling themselves open-source.
  - echelon 1y ago
    Why is it okay to just accept that the hyperscalers are 100% closed, but the minute a smaller player tries to play "open-ish" with "fair source" we crucify them? Fair source is amazing. You get the code. You can modify the code. You can redistribute the code. You just can't take their business from them and compete with them head-to-head with their product. You can reformulate it into something else, but you can't take their labor and cut their knees off with it. You have literally every other freedom. Why in the hell are so many people against that? Fair source is sustainable and equitable. You get everything except for that one little right with which you could compete with them. Everyone gushes over Obsidian - that's not even "source available" or "fair source". It's completely closed. I bet if Obsidian went "fair source", and you could download the code and compile it yourself, there would be hundreds of voices crawling out of the woodwork to call them the devil for not being pure OSI-approved open. How dare they keep one little freedom to themselves for all the hard work they've done? I'm half convinced the anti-"fair source" voices are deep industry folks who want big tech to own the OSI definition. Who can use it strategically as they sit atop hundreds of billions of dollars in cash flows. Open source to the FAANGMAGMA Gods is just a way of outsourcing labor and dangling trinkets in front of underpaid labor. n8n isn't doing a "VC rug pull." They're trying to be sustainable. The only thing that's been "pulled" is the wool over the eyes of every engineer satisfied with FAANG OSI-approved serfdom. Some of the pieces are "open" all right, but they own pretty much everything the sunlight touches. If n8n can't build a business then it just becomes some side project hobby. What exactly do we think every other company is doing? Please be more pragmatic and realize that "fair source" is sustainable. It rewards the innovators and you get almost everything for free. You just can't shoot them with their own gun. Do you not want the ability to download the source and potentially tweak the software? To have a copy you can hold onto forever? To be able to analyze it for telemetry. To be able to potentially submit patches (if you're feeling generous)? Don't you want them to make money? Rather than beg for Github donation scraps? Be especially mindful if you're typing a retort on a Macbook Pro or iPhone and deploying software to GKE or AWS. --- https://faircode.io/ https://faircode.io/ https://fair.io/ https://fair.io/
robotswantdata 1y ago
Node red is better (imo) but harder for non technical users to use
- kristopherleads 1y ago
  What makes it feel harder to you for non-technical users? I'm a huge fan - it's what brought me to them to do DevRel stuff - so I'm really invested in making sure that the onboarding/use pathway is really clean and well laid-out.
Onavo 1y ago
Try activepieces, they never did any bait and switch. https://www.activepieces.com/ https://www.activepieces.com/
- Lord_Zero 1y ago
  Looks like they have tables too
itayd 1y ago
You can also try https://github.com/autokitteh/autokitteh https://github.com/autokitteh/autokitteh. Python based, completely open source. Got inter workflow storage as well
- rcarmo 1y ago
  Not quite the same thing UX wise. UX is one of the main reasons people stick to n8n, alas.
  - itayd 1y ago
    Yes, we're built more for people who want to build using code, so the UI is different. That said, our road plan includes more UI features.
Flere-Imsaho 1y ago
Node-RED is cool but I didn't realise it could do the AI workflows that n8n is aiming for?
- rubenfiszel 1y ago
  For the AI workflows, we (windmill.dev) added AI Agent steps as first class primitives very recently.
- nemanja030 1y ago
  Node-Red is probably a more hands on approach, than n8n, as someone who have 6-7 years of experience in node-red i find n8n really complicated for some reason. A lot of windows and configurations. Started with node-red and quickly built great skills in backend development. Also utilized Cursor to quickly spinup a OpenRouter nodes for node-red, install node-red and check them out :D https://www.npmjs.com/package/@lizzard-solutions/node-red-contrib-openrouter https://www.npmjs.com/package/@lizzard-solutions/node-red-co...
  - kristopherleads 1y ago
    Love to hear you love using Node-RED! That package looks pretty cool! I'll check it out - I'm super in the weeds today with a flow so I'm in deep-dive mode.
- rcarmo 1y ago
  It can, absolutely. I have been prototyping Agentic workflows on it for a long while now with my own custom nodes. Also, it runs great on bun now.
- kristopherleads 1y ago
  It definitely can! Full disclosure, I'm a DevRel at FlowFuse, so I'm definitely biased here - but there's quite a lot of support for AI workflows, from lightweight automation to fairly complex pipelines. For example, I'm currently building a flow that connects device monitoring data to a central reporting structure, compares the incoming values against internal spec docs, and uses OpenAI to summarise overall operational status and any drift/out-of-spec issues. The summaries (along with the raw JSON objects) are then sent over MQTT for multi-site compliance and operations. Once you map it out, it's surprisingly straightforward to build. What makes Node-RED and FlowFuse stand out on this particular use case IMO is that AI flows get treated just like any other message payload. That means your AI output becomes a first-class data object in the system - you can remix, transform, mutate, or extract from it the same way you would any other JSON payload, making it pretty portable and easy to integrate.
Lutzb 1y ago
There is also langflow.
- behnamoh 1y ago
  unfortunately it can't do parallel tool call!
1upon0 1y ago
What do people think about windmill.dev for such workloads? I've found their community tier quite generous and ability to script, access control, make frontends, approval flows quite helpful
- SOLAR_FIELDS 1y ago
  I was in an org that used windmill. We eventually got off it mostly because the model encourages end users to install arbitrary python packages at runtime from the internet. That might be acceptable for some use cases but not ours

tarun_anand 1y ago

Keep to know how people are using it inspite of the licensing issues. Langflow seems good?

nextworddev 1y ago
Langflow was more painful than a wisdom tooth extraction to use. This was back in early 2025 tho
- Towaway69 1y ago
  I would recommend Node-RED but that's a lot more work than a Zapier or N8n but you can do more with it - Node-RED abstraction level is closer to a programming language than a SaaS combinatorial tool. Depends on what you want to achieve and how much effort you want to apply.

cyrnel 1y ago

+1 for Node-RED. If we've learned anything from elasticsearch/redis/bitnami/and dozens of others, it should be "don't build important things on code that isn't enshittification-resistant"

echelon 1y ago
What did elasticsearch/redis do so wrong? AWS and Google stole their only revenue source. Those guys did all the work and AWS and Google get to collect a cool hundred million each quarter for doing next to nothing. And the original authors can't compete with that. Are we all gonna go sign up to "Enterprise Redis Cloud" to support them? I don't think so. They have nothing left. They got picked dry. If they're preserved a "no managed offerings" freedom for themselves, they could collect a few hundred million from each hyperscaler each quarter and put that directly into product. And their engineers would be extra nicely compensated. But that's not how this story plays out. Big tech just takes things and finds out how to monetize them in ways they don't have to give back. And we've been trained (by big tech?) to yell at the little guys that try to carve out a space for themselves.
- cyrnel 1y ago
  Both are billion dollar companies, we as individuals have nothing in common with them. Enshittification happens due to market conditions that apply to small and large companies alike. Redis and elasticsearch aren't underdogs fighting for the little guy, they are just a smaller scale version of the same shit. I'd rather have a software commons and have tech be owned by the workers and not soul-sucking corporations, no matter the size.
  - rixed 1y ago
    Sure, so would I. I would also prefer to live in a world without borders. Meanwhile, I'm just a peace activist. Life in this imperfect Earth makes you grumpy too early if you are not pragmatic.

akudha 1y ago

ActivePieces is also an option

rglover 1y ago

Hadn't heard of Node-RED but this is really cool. Thanks for mentioning it.

andrewmutz 1y ago

Yet more evidence that venture capital is basically incompatible with open source software. It's just a matter of time before any VC-backed open source company betrays its users.

JimDabell 1y ago
n8n was never open source. They started out using Apache with a non-free clause added, but they called themselves open-source incorrectly. Then when this became more widely known, they stopped calling themselves open-source.
- echelon 1y ago
  Why is it okay to just accept that the hyperscalers are 100% closed, but the minute a smaller player tries to play "open-ish" with "fair source" we crucify them? Fair source is amazing. You get the code. You can modify the code. You can redistribute the code. You just can't take their business from them and compete with them head-to-head with their product. You can reformulate it into something else, but you can't take their labor and cut their knees off with it. You have literally every other freedom. Why in the hell are so many people against that? Fair source is sustainable and equitable. You get everything except for that one little right with which you could compete with them. Everyone gushes over Obsidian - that's not even "source available" or "fair source". It's completely closed. I bet if Obsidian went "fair source", and you could download the code and compile it yourself, there would be hundreds of voices crawling out of the woodwork to call them the devil for not being pure OSI-approved open. How dare they keep one little freedom to themselves for all the hard work they've done? I'm half convinced the anti-"fair source" voices are deep industry folks who want big tech to own the OSI definition. Who can use it strategically as they sit atop hundreds of billions of dollars in cash flows. Open source to the FAANGMAGMA Gods is just a way of outsourcing labor and dangling trinkets in front of underpaid labor. n8n isn't doing a "VC rug pull." They're trying to be sustainable. The only thing that's been "pulled" is the wool over the eyes of every engineer satisfied with FAANG OSI-approved serfdom. Some of the pieces are "open" all right, but they own pretty much everything the sunlight touches. If n8n can't build a business then it just becomes some side project hobby. What exactly do we think every other company is doing? Please be more pragmatic and realize that "fair source" is sustainable. It rewards the innovators and you get almost everything for free. You just can't shoot them with their own gun. Do you not want the ability to download the source and potentially tweak the software? To have a copy you can hold onto forever? To be able to analyze it for telemetry. To be able to potentially submit patches (if you're feeling generous)? Don't you want them to make money? Rather than beg for Github donation scraps? Be especially mindful if you're typing a retort on a Macbook Pro or iPhone and deploying software to GKE or AWS. --- https://faircode.io/ https://faircode.io/ https://fair.io/ https://fair.io/

robotswantdata 1y ago

Node red is better (imo) but harder for non technical users to use

kristopherleads 1y ago
What makes it feel harder to you for non-technical users? I'm a huge fan - it's what brought me to them to do DevRel stuff - so I'm really invested in making sure that the onboarding/use pathway is really clean and well laid-out.

Onavo 1y ago

Try activepieces, they never did any bait and switch. https://www.activepieces.com/ https://www.activepieces.com/

Lord_Zero 1y ago
Looks like they have tables too

itayd 1y ago

You can also try https://github.com/autokitteh/autokitteh https://github.com/autokitteh/autokitteh. Python based, completely open source. Got inter workflow storage as well

rcarmo 1y ago
Not quite the same thing UX wise. UX is one of the main reasons people stick to n8n, alas.
- itayd 1y ago
  Yes, we're built more for people who want to build using code, so the UI is different. That said, our road plan includes more UI features.

Flere-Imsaho 1y ago

Node-RED is cool but I didn't realise it could do the AI workflows that n8n is aiming for?

rubenfiszel 1y ago
For the AI workflows, we (windmill.dev) added AI Agent steps as first class primitives very recently.
nemanja030 1y ago
Node-Red is probably a more hands on approach, than n8n, as someone who have 6-7 years of experience in node-red i find n8n really complicated for some reason. A lot of windows and configurations. Started with node-red and quickly built great skills in backend development. Also utilized Cursor to quickly spinup a OpenRouter nodes for node-red, install node-red and check them out :D https://www.npmjs.com/package/@lizzard-solutions/node-red-contrib-openrouter https://www.npmjs.com/package/@lizzard-solutions/node-red-co...
- kristopherleads 1y ago
  Love to hear you love using Node-RED! That package looks pretty cool! I'll check it out - I'm super in the weeds today with a flow so I'm in deep-dive mode.
rcarmo 1y ago
It can, absolutely. I have been prototyping Agentic workflows on it for a long while now with my own custom nodes. Also, it runs great on bun now.
kristopherleads 1y ago
It definitely can! Full disclosure, I'm a DevRel at FlowFuse, so I'm definitely biased here - but there's quite a lot of support for AI workflows, from lightweight automation to fairly complex pipelines. For example, I'm currently building a flow that connects device monitoring data to a central reporting structure, compares the incoming values against internal spec docs, and uses OpenAI to summarise overall operational status and any drift/out-of-spec issues. The summaries (along with the raw JSON objects) are then sent over MQTT for multi-site compliance and operations. Once you map it out, it's surprisingly straightforward to build. What makes Node-RED and FlowFuse stand out on this particular use case IMO is that AI flows get treated just like any other message payload. That means your AI output becomes a first-class data object in the system - you can remix, transform, mutate, or extract from it the same way you would any other JSON payload, making it pretty portable and easy to integrate.

Lutzb 1y ago

There is also langflow.

behnamoh 1y ago
unfortunately it can't do parallel tool call!

1upon0 1y ago

What do people think about windmill.dev for such workloads? I've found their community tier quite generous and ability to script, access control, make frontends, approval flows quite helpful

SOLAR_FIELDS 1y ago
I was in an org that used windmill. We eventually got off it mostly because the model encourages end users to install arbitrary python packages at runtime from the internet. That might be acceptable for some use cases but not ours