3 ms·

The article doesn't say this explicitly, but I would guess the majority of the remaining Windows 10 population is not stubborn users that refuse to update, it's

The article doesn't say this explicitly, but I would guess the majority of the remaining Windows 10 population is not stubborn users that refuse to update, it's people who just can't because of the Windows 11 hardware requirements. I can't update my desktop without replacing the motherboard and CPU and I just don't want to to spend the time and money on that anytime soon. The computer works fine.

callc 1y ago
I installed Windows 11 on a very old laptop for a family member that failed the hardware requirements. Just use the ISO and Rufus. Make me lose respect even more for Microsoft, to think of all the wasted resources and money people thought they needed to because of “requirements”
- justin66 1y ago
  There's no guarantee those machines won't get bricked by a future update.
- watwut 1y ago
  I had it installed on work laptop. It became noticeably annoyingly slower with windows 11.
Simulacra 1y ago
This is my sentiment aswell, I think Windows 11 is a hate crime, and I refuse to use it.
pjmlp 1y ago
Yeah, even though I usually tend to like Windows with the warts and all, this is nothing else other than planned obsolescence. Many of the security features on Windows 11 that require these hardware changes, are already available on Windows 10 as optional. The reasoning is that they shouldn't be turned off, and this is a way to force OEMs to actually provide the hardware on their motherboards. What it isn't said is that PC sales have been down for a while and Covid was kind of the exception due to the way everyone needed to work from home.
- gruez 1y ago
  >The reasoning is that they shouldn't be turned off, and this is a way to force OEMs to actually provide the hardware on their motherboards. Both Intel and AMD CPUs have fTPMs (ie. inside the CPU) since 2020 at the latest. There's no additional hardware that's needed from OEMs.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Depends, CoPilot+ PC also requires Pluton, and it needs to be TPM 2.0.
out_of_protocol 1y ago
They need DRM thing ASAP. Next step would be to auto-fail every device without hardware TPM module (including Win11 with bypassed TPM requirement). "This software wont run on this PC" "this movie won't play" etc
- gruez 1y ago
  >They need DRM thing ASAP. I'm aware of zero DRMs that use TPM, despite being a DRM boogeyman for over a decade. Meanwhile there are plenty of actual DRMs that use HDCP and SGX and there's not a peep about those technologies. Moreover the war on DRM is basically over, for both sides. Smart TVs and streaming boxes (eg. fire TV stick) are ubiquitous enough that basically everyone uses those devices for playback, rather than bothering with the hassle of plugging in their laptop and dealing with the fickle DRM experience on PCs. For the tiny minority that wants to watch on their PCs, 4K rips are ubiquitous enough that nobody bothers watching the official DRM encumbered version.
clan 1y ago
I agree. I am in the same boat. However it is possible for the more technically minded without too much effort with an adapted "unattend.xml" file during setup. This skips TPM requirements account setup and a number of other annoyances. See: https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/ https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/ If you take the effort to do this subsequent installations will be a walk in the park.
jasode 1y ago
>, it's people who just can't because of the Windows 11 hardware requirements. I can't update my desktop without replacing the motherboard and CPU As workarounds for TPM requirement, one can either: - open a Command Prompt window during the Windows installer and run regedit (various Youtube vids cover it) - use Rufus to create a boot USB from a Windows ISO that bypasses TPM (which does the same regedit hack behind-the-scenes by conveniently embedding it in an install script "\sources\$OEM$\$$\Panther\unattend.xml") That's how I got Windows 11 installed on a very old 2009 computer. I had to upgrade a friend's computer to Win 11 because the upcoming TurboTax 2025 requires it and there's no need to buy a new computer just to satisfy Microsoft. >And that may break with any update. Yes, and that's an acceptable risk calculation to avoid prematurely buying a new computer because: "Windows 11 TPM hack _might_ be broken in the future but _maybe_never_ " -- better than -- "Windows 10 _absolutely_will_ be broken"
- 0x073 1y ago
  And that may break with any update. > Yes, and that's an acceptable risk calculation to avoid prematurely buying a new computer because: ... - there are 3 year esm updates - Linux based os that are nowadays more stable than windows
- RossBencina 1y ago
  > "Windows 10 _absolutely_will_ be broken" Aside from lack of security updates and slowly declining application support is there any other type of "broken" that we should be worried about? They seem like a lower risk than a Windows update taking out the entire system.
naasking 1y ago
This is exactly it, and forget about desktops, laptops are not upgradeable at all. Hardware from 10 years ago is still very capable. Windows 10 will be around for awhile.
WorldMaker 1y ago
Yeah, I've got a desktop in the same condition. Works great still, probably has 3 or 4 years of life left depending on various factors. The motherboard and CPU are fine for a lot of day-to-day life but don't meet Windows 11 requirements. Motherboard and CPU replacement is my personal "ship of Theseus" line for "no longer the same computer" and a surgery I personally don't want to do. I'm thinking I'll probably repave it with Bazzite or something like it. But so far I keep procrastinating that as it stopped being my daily workhorse. It's funny that when I bought that desktop Microsoft was still in the "Windows 10 will last the lifetime of your device" marketing pitch. Such a fascinating broken promise that they could have kept in multiple ways. It sounds like they may let the market talk them into the awful Windows XP life support version of it where they may be offering extended security support for years to come.
alyandon 1y ago
For me, I'll be replacing Windows with Linux on any machine that can't run Windows 11 in a supported fashion. I honestly thought Microsoft would blink on this but I guess their leadership believes everyone is going to run out and buy an entirely new computer just to run Windows 11. My older parents (for example) aren't going to throw away their perfectly functional desktops/laptops and will instead continue to use Windows 10 with the attendant security risks (they won't pay $30 for security updates) unless I convince them to switch to Linux.
AndrewDucker 1y ago
I don't think the response of "Just run these commands during install" is very useful. Unless you are personally prepared to go round to the homes of people who have had their computer for a decade, don't understand command lines, and just use their long-running PC to surf the net and edit the occasional document, it doesn't actually solve anything.
kmfrk 1y ago
It's always been curious to me how scary it always feels to upgrade Windows. One of the things I loved about being on macOS was how boring it was to upgrade - at least until you waited for the .1 update. Windows upgrades feel less like upgrades and more like full migrations.
MattPalmer1086 1y ago
Right. I have two perfectly serviceable machines on win 10 that can't upgrade. But they still work and honestly, I don't see much downside to running them without any updates for a while. Eventually I'll replace them and maybe they will get win 11 or 12. Or Linux as that's what everything else is already running.

callc 1y ago

I installed Windows 11 on a very old laptop for a family member that failed the hardware requirements. Just use the ISO and Rufus. Make me lose respect even more for Microsoft, to think of all the wasted resources and money people thought they needed to because of “requirements”

justin66 1y ago
There's no guarantee those machines won't get bricked by a future update.
watwut 1y ago
I had it installed on work laptop. It became noticeably annoyingly slower with windows 11.

Simulacra 1y ago

This is my sentiment aswell, I think Windows 11 is a hate crime, and I refuse to use it.

pjmlp 1y ago

Yeah, even though I usually tend to like Windows with the warts and all, this is nothing else other than planned obsolescence. Many of the security features on Windows 11 that require these hardware changes, are already available on Windows 10 as optional. The reasoning is that they shouldn't be turned off, and this is a way to force OEMs to actually provide the hardware on their motherboards. What it isn't said is that PC sales have been down for a while and Covid was kind of the exception due to the way everyone needed to work from home.

gruez 1y ago
>The reasoning is that they shouldn't be turned off, and this is a way to force OEMs to actually provide the hardware on their motherboards. Both Intel and AMD CPUs have fTPMs (ie. inside the CPU) since 2020 at the latest. There's no additional hardware that's needed from OEMs.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Depends, CoPilot+ PC also requires Pluton, and it needs to be TPM 2.0.

out_of_protocol 1y ago

They need DRM thing ASAP. Next step would be to auto-fail every device without hardware TPM module (including Win11 with bypassed TPM requirement). "This software wont run on this PC" "this movie won't play" etc

gruez 1y ago
>They need DRM thing ASAP. I'm aware of zero DRMs that use TPM, despite being a DRM boogeyman for over a decade. Meanwhile there are plenty of actual DRMs that use HDCP and SGX and there's not a peep about those technologies. Moreover the war on DRM is basically over, for both sides. Smart TVs and streaming boxes (eg. fire TV stick) are ubiquitous enough that basically everyone uses those devices for playback, rather than bothering with the hassle of plugging in their laptop and dealing with the fickle DRM experience on PCs. For the tiny minority that wants to watch on their PCs, 4K rips are ubiquitous enough that nobody bothers watching the official DRM encumbered version.

clan 1y ago

I agree. I am in the same boat. However it is possible for the more technically minded without too much effort with an adapted "unattend.xml" file during setup. This skips TPM requirements account setup and a number of other annoyances. See: https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/ https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/ If you take the effort to do this subsequent installations will be a walk in the park.

jasode 1y ago

>, it's people who just can't because of the Windows 11 hardware requirements. I can't update my desktop without replacing the motherboard and CPU As workarounds for TPM requirement, one can either: - open a Command Prompt window during the Windows installer and run regedit (various Youtube vids cover it) - use Rufus to create a boot USB from a Windows ISO that bypasses TPM (which does the same regedit hack behind-the-scenes by conveniently embedding it in an install script "\sources\$OEM$\$$\Panther\unattend.xml") That's how I got Windows 11 installed on a very old 2009 computer. I had to upgrade a friend's computer to Win 11 because the upcoming TurboTax 2025 requires it and there's no need to buy a new computer just to satisfy Microsoft. >And that may break with any update. Yes, and that's an acceptable risk calculation to avoid prematurely buying a new computer because: "Windows 11 TPM hack _might_ be broken in the future but _maybe_never_ " -- better than -- "Windows 10 _absolutely_will_ be broken"

0x073 1y ago
And that may break with any update. > Yes, and that's an acceptable risk calculation to avoid prematurely buying a new computer because: ... - there are 3 year esm updates - Linux based os that are nowadays more stable than windows
RossBencina 1y ago
> "Windows 10 _absolutely_will_ be broken" Aside from lack of security updates and slowly declining application support is there any other type of "broken" that we should be worried about? They seem like a lower risk than a Windows update taking out the entire system.

naasking 1y ago

This is exactly it, and forget about desktops, laptops are not upgradeable at all. Hardware from 10 years ago is still very capable. Windows 10 will be around for awhile.

WorldMaker 1y ago

Yeah, I've got a desktop in the same condition. Works great still, probably has 3 or 4 years of life left depending on various factors. The motherboard and CPU are fine for a lot of day-to-day life but don't meet Windows 11 requirements. Motherboard and CPU replacement is my personal "ship of Theseus" line for "no longer the same computer" and a surgery I personally don't want to do. I'm thinking I'll probably repave it with Bazzite or something like it. But so far I keep procrastinating that as it stopped being my daily workhorse. It's funny that when I bought that desktop Microsoft was still in the "Windows 10 will last the lifetime of your device" marketing pitch. Such a fascinating broken promise that they could have kept in multiple ways. It sounds like they may let the market talk them into the awful Windows XP life support version of it where they may be offering extended security support for years to come.

alyandon 1y ago

For me, I'll be replacing Windows with Linux on any machine that can't run Windows 11 in a supported fashion. I honestly thought Microsoft would blink on this but I guess their leadership believes everyone is going to run out and buy an entirely new computer just to run Windows 11. My older parents (for example) aren't going to throw away their perfectly functional desktops/laptops and will instead continue to use Windows 10 with the attendant security risks (they won't pay $30 for security updates) unless I convince them to switch to Linux.

AndrewDucker 1y ago

I don't think the response of "Just run these commands during install" is very useful. Unless you are personally prepared to go round to the homes of people who have had their computer for a decade, don't understand command lines, and just use their long-running PC to surf the net and edit the occasional document, it doesn't actually solve anything.

kmfrk 1y ago

It's always been curious to me how scary it always feels to upgrade Windows. One of the things I loved about being on macOS was how boring it was to upgrade - at least until you waited for the .1 update. Windows upgrades feel less like upgrades and more like full migrations.

MattPalmer1086 1y ago

Right. I have two perfectly serviceable machines on win 10 that can't upgrade. But they still work and honestly, I don't see much downside to running them without any updates for a while. Eventually I'll replace them and maybe they will get win 11 or 12. Or Linux as that's what everything else is already running.