4 ms·

As a European, I much prefer technological stagnation over technological progress that is harmful to society.

quotemstr 1y ago
Civilizations that think this way get conquered by ones that don't, and afterwards, nobody much cares what they thought.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- skrebbel 1y ago
  You think the US is going to invade Europe and enforce a techno-capitalist oligarchy on it?
  - quotemstr 1y ago
    Of course not. I do think that the US might get bored of defending a continent that refuses to lift a finger to defend itself --- or put much effort into anything that isn't regulating, censoring, or fining someone, and then someone else will invade Europe and impose a techno-capitalist oligarchy or worse on it.
    - DrScientist 1y ago
      There is serious talk in the US now that democracy is a failed system and the country would be better run by a bunch of self-selected billionaires in perpetuity. The election choices are between some-one is clearly senile, or somebody who clearly has no substance and, well, Trump. Other recent candidates include sons of previous presidents, or wives of previous presidents. And you are worried about Europe. Europe is worried about Europe - but in the context of catching what the US has via dark money flowing through tech platforms driving politics.
- em-bee 1y ago
  we are being conquered by google and facebook already. them leaving would be the exact opposite.
  - quotemstr 1y ago
    Any civilization that calls its citizens making a product choice "conquest" is terminally coddled and isn't going to make it through the century to come.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      which choice are you talking about? there is no choice. there are no alternatives to facebook if all your friends are on it. there is no alternative to youtube, and for other products, the alternatives take a lot of effort. (hence despite the existence of linux, there is no choice to windows for example, because it comes preinstalled on every device. same for google infested android) this is even worse in smaller and in less developed countries. they are most certainly being conquered. and i don't get what you are trying to say. i am terminally coddled because i view google and facebook as conquerors? what does that even mean?
  - hsuduebc2 1y ago
    fr
- darkmighty 1y ago
  This seems like a bit of an empty moral panic/slippery slope appeal. As a general rule, it could go either way: civilizations can also collapse from not-enough-regulation, not-enough-rule of law, oligarchic capture, or even just become a megacorporation dystopia without collapsing for a long time, maybe ever. Better to critique the specific case, if you have any objections.
- vanviegen 1y ago
  If we're talking about actual technological innovation, then yes perhaps. In this case we're talking about social media 'innovation' though. The science and art of getting a population highly addicted to doom scrolling. I'm not sure if that will help said population outcompete the other guys.
ecb_penguin 1y ago
"As a European, I much prefer technological stagnation over bundled messenger apps" Fixed it for you.
- niek_pas 1y ago
  The ruling here is about choice of recommendation system ('algorithm'), which ties into social media addiction as well as electoral influence. So there's actually quite a bit at stake.
Workaccount2 1y ago
Europe has this delusion that they can keep living their magically relaxed life, and continue to both fund it and stay relevant on the world stage. FYI, the big players today are the US and China. Nobody has the heart to call and tell Europeans that they aren't really part of the future, they're still away on their 8th week long holiday of the year. Not staying economically relevant is far (far) more harmful to society than forgoing social media.
- delbronski 1y ago
  Yeah sure, because life in the USA is so much more awesome than in Europe. Naww, they can keep their relevancy in the world stage. We are good over here living in the "stone age".
  - Workaccount2 1y ago
    The problem isn't that Europe is living in the stone age, clearly they aren't. The problem is that they are living in the modern age entirely on the back of foreign tech. Chinese hardware running American software. Industry running on American energy, and protection totally reliant on American defense (the US spent more money per capita in Ukraine than the EU did...). This doesn't even factor in generous welfare programs that will need to be funded by a shrinking population(!) that doesn't have cutting edge skills anymore. Europe decided to vacation for the last 30 years rather than go to work. The fruit of the post-war era was bountiful, and bank accounts were healthy, so why not take time off? Stone age is not a good way to describe Europe today, but over the next 10-20 years it very well may become more appropriate. European leaders are keenly aware of this, but man is it hard to convince the kids that they need to end their vacation, especially when it is all they have ever known.
    - DrScientist 1y ago
      > Chinese hardware running American software Who designed the chip in your phone? Is it more likely to be Intel (US) or is it more likely to be ARM (UK)? Where does Linux ( which pretty much runs the entire internet from routers to servers ) originate from? > Industry running on American energy Eh? While EU imports of US gas are on the rise due to the Ukraine war ( and the blowing up of Russian pipelines which, BTW, the US is implicated in ) - it's a fraction of total energy. > protection totally reliant on American defense So the US bases on British islands in the Indian Ocean, or in Japan ( put there after the end of the war with ... Japan ) are purely for the benefit of others and not in anyway part of US global interests?

Civilizations that think this way get conquered by ones that don't, and afterwards, nobody much cares what they thought.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
skrebbel 1y ago
You think the US is going to invade Europe and enforce a techno-capitalist oligarchy on it?
- quotemstr 1y ago
  Of course not. I do think that the US might get bored of defending a continent that refuses to lift a finger to defend itself --- or put much effort into anything that isn't regulating, censoring, or fining someone, and then someone else will invade Europe and impose a techno-capitalist oligarchy or worse on it.
  - DrScientist 1y ago
    There is serious talk in the US now that democracy is a failed system and the country would be better run by a bunch of self-selected billionaires in perpetuity. The election choices are between some-one is clearly senile, or somebody who clearly has no substance and, well, Trump. Other recent candidates include sons of previous presidents, or wives of previous presidents. And you are worried about Europe. Europe is worried about Europe - but in the context of catching what the US has via dark money flowing through tech platforms driving politics.
em-bee 1y ago
we are being conquered by google and facebook already. them leaving would be the exact opposite.
- quotemstr 1y ago
  Any civilization that calls its citizens making a product choice "conquest" is terminally coddled and isn't going to make it through the century to come.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    which choice are you talking about? there is no choice. there are no alternatives to facebook if all your friends are on it. there is no alternative to youtube, and for other products, the alternatives take a lot of effort. (hence despite the existence of linux, there is no choice to windows for example, because it comes preinstalled on every device. same for google infested android) this is even worse in smaller and in less developed countries. they are most certainly being conquered. and i don't get what you are trying to say. i am terminally coddled because i view google and facebook as conquerors? what does that even mean?
- hsuduebc2 1y ago
  fr
darkmighty 1y ago
This seems like a bit of an empty moral panic/slippery slope appeal. As a general rule, it could go either way: civilizations can also collapse from not-enough-regulation, not-enough-rule of law, oligarchic capture, or even just become a megacorporation dystopia without collapsing for a long time, maybe ever. Better to critique the specific case, if you have any objections.
vanviegen 1y ago
If we're talking about actual technological innovation, then yes perhaps. In this case we're talking about social media 'innovation' though. The science and art of getting a population highly addicted to doom scrolling. I'm not sure if that will help said population outcompete the other guys.

ecb_penguin 1y ago

"As a European, I much prefer technological stagnation over bundled messenger apps" Fixed it for you.

niek_pas 1y ago
The ruling here is about choice of recommendation system ('algorithm'), which ties into social media addiction as well as electoral influence. So there's actually quite a bit at stake.

Workaccount2 1y ago

Europe has this delusion that they can keep living their magically relaxed life, and continue to both fund it and stay relevant on the world stage. FYI, the big players today are the US and China. Nobody has the heart to call and tell Europeans that they aren't really part of the future, they're still away on their 8th week long holiday of the year. Not staying economically relevant is far (far) more harmful to society than forgoing social media.

delbronski 1y ago
Yeah sure, because life in the USA is so much more awesome than in Europe. Naww, they can keep their relevancy in the world stage. We are good over here living in the "stone age".
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  The problem isn't that Europe is living in the stone age, clearly they aren't. The problem is that they are living in the modern age entirely on the back of foreign tech. Chinese hardware running American software. Industry running on American energy, and protection totally reliant on American defense (the US spent more money per capita in Ukraine than the EU did...). This doesn't even factor in generous welfare programs that will need to be funded by a shrinking population(!) that doesn't have cutting edge skills anymore. Europe decided to vacation for the last 30 years rather than go to work. The fruit of the post-war era was bountiful, and bank accounts were healthy, so why not take time off? Stone age is not a good way to describe Europe today, but over the next 10-20 years it very well may become more appropriate. European leaders are keenly aware of this, but man is it hard to convince the kids that they need to end their vacation, especially when it is all they have ever known.
  - DrScientist 1y ago
    > Chinese hardware running American software Who designed the chip in your phone? Is it more likely to be Intel (US) or is it more likely to be ARM (UK)? Where does Linux ( which pretty much runs the entire internet from routers to servers ) originate from? > Industry running on American energy Eh? While EU imports of US gas are on the rise due to the Ukraine war ( and the blowing up of Russian pipelines which, BTW, the US is implicated in ) - it's a fraction of total energy. > protection totally reliant on American defense So the US bases on British islands in the Indian Ocean, or in Japan ( put there after the end of the war with ... Japan ) are purely for the benefit of others and not in anyway part of US global interests?