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Why? Because you mention casual sex and irony as something similar to racism and homophobia. I hate racism and homophobia while I don't see nothing wrong or "me

by ii 18y ago

Why? Because you mention casual sex and irony as something similar to racism and homophobia. I hate racism and homophobia while I don't see nothing wrong or "mean" with casual sex and irony.

time_management 18y ago
My use of the word "irony" referred, in particular, to the hipster phenomenon and the general "fuck it" attitude toward life and other people. Hipster "irony" is often about making fun of the disadvantaged. It has nothing to do with literary irony. Casual sex is not nearly as evil as racism or homophobia, I agree. I didn't intend to make comparisons in that list. But I do think casual sex is impractical, and often an expression of latent misogyny. Does casual sex necessarily lead to misogyny, erosion respect between genders, lower self-esteem among the participants, and a permanently damaged ability to form lasting love relationships? No. In practice, does it almost always produce these things? Yes. Casual sex works in theory but not in practice; humans aren't meant to have their hormone levels and emotions jacked around like that.
- ii 18y ago
  Whatever downsides "fuck it" attitudes and casual sex might have they are not comparable to racism or homophobia in any way IMHO.
  - time_management 18y ago
    I'm sorry if you thought I was trivializing the worse evils (which are orders of magnitude worse, in this case) by listing them in conjunction with petty ones. This was not my intention at all. I see all of these social illnesses as interlinked through a root disregard for humanity, but I didn't articulate this well and seem to have unintentionally offended a lot of people. My apologies.
- riklomas 18y ago
  Don't be so moralizing, if you can't say anything nice...
- anamax 18y ago
  Except that "hipster irony" isn't unique to hipsters and didn't start with them. The more that you explain, the more it seems that your whole position and conclusion depends on historical "facts" that simply aren't true.
- unalone 18y ago
  My use of the word "irony" referred, in particular, to the hipster phenomenon and the general "fuck it" attitude toward life and other people. I'm in the midst of hipster friends. That's not how it works. First off, the "fuck it" attitude stems from nihilism. Some people are nihilist, some are idealist, some are a mix. Nihilism has existed for a while: see Sex Pistols for an instance of great art stemming from nihilism, and that was before the 80s. The idea of "hipster irony" comes not from jerkoffirony, but from a real dislike of social norms. I dunno if I've seen this stated before online, but this is how it works. You get very standard attitudes towards things. Liking Power Rangers becomes lame once you're in, say, middle school. Or listening to ABBA. At some point, a certain sort of person (I tend to identify it as the thespian crowd) decides you're allowed to say you like whatever you want. Some people get inspired by this to be honest to themselves. Other people do it ironically. It's like the punk movement was. Then, people ripped clothes and lived like animals to oppose society. Now punk is an accepted means, and hipsterism becomes the rejection of typical bounds. That's why hipster bands so often are acoustic or electronic in callback to the 80s, why many hipster artists sound really awful (Kimya Dawson, f'rinstance). It's because 80s sounds, while lame, still sound really catchy, and sometimes a bad singer fits the song. So think of it as new-generation punk. Hipsters wear t-shirts because they like the slogans on them. Eventually people do it just to look hip and so it becomes lame and overused, but the intent is to just do what you want to do. People miss that just like they missed what punk was about until it was accepted. So my friends wear corduroy pants and t-shirts and big jackets and listen to Fleet Foxes and the Decemberists and even read Pitchfork. We all occasionally say things ironically. It's not this wide circlejerk. It's a bunch of smart, witty people who think it's more fun to constantly be verbally dueling than it is to spout movie quotes like the Monty Pythonites do, and who like a wide variety of stuff because it all sounds good. Hipsters are good fun people who aren't ruining society. They also have less casual sex, so that's a good thing!
  - yters 18y ago
    If its about just doing what you want to do, why are people who want to be like their friends mocked? That's all hipsters are doing to, its just more convoluted.
    - 18y ago
- ahoyhere 18y ago
  Casual sex is misogynist? You should take a good look in the mirror, mister.
  - yters 18y ago
    It is. Men can sleep around without ill effect, but it destroys a woman emotionally. Women need the security of social stigma against cads. So, tricking women to think casual sex is good is misogynistic since it is all about using women. Certain aspects of feminism look like they were actually invented by very evil men.
    - menloparkbum 18y ago
      Men can sleep around without ill effect? Tell that to my chlamydia infection. Ba-da-bing! Seriously though, your observation is totally cultural and most certainly doesn't apply in the Bay Area. There's no real stigma against casual sex here and since there is a 10:1 male to female ratio, the women are totally in control. Women here have the luxury of figuring out exactly what combination of dick size, personality, paycheck and hairdo they like. The men, rather than being predatory cads, are reduced to fretting over whether or not they should get a tattoo or an $80 t-shirt in hopes of maybe possibly (probably not) attracting the attention of a google PM.
      - time_management 18y ago
        Remind me not to move to the Bay Area unless I have a girlfriend at the time. Sex and the City bitches are disgusting. I hate to admit this, but I take pleasure in the thought of them spending their middle-aged years sobbing every time a school bus passes by.
        anamax 18y ago
        > I hate to admit this, but I take pleasure in the thought of them spending their middle-aged years sobbing every time a school bus passes by. Someone needs a double-helping of "It's not about you." Your cocoon may work for you, but its not reality. There's nothing wrong with being a judgemental prick, but it doesn't work well with "I'm just good-hearted and caring".
- sutro 18y ago
  Casual sex works in theory but not in practice. I suspect that your own sex life could use less theory and more practice.

by ii 18y ago

Why? Because you mention casual sex and irony as something similar to racism and homophobia. I hate racism and homophobia while I don't see nothing wrong or "mean" with casual sex and irony.

time_management 18y ago

My use of the word "irony" referred, in particular, to the hipster phenomenon and the general "fuck it" attitude toward life and other people. Hipster "irony" is often about making fun of the disadvantaged. It has nothing to do with literary irony. Casual sex is not nearly as evil as racism or homophobia, I agree. I didn't intend to make comparisons in that list. But I do think casual sex is impractical, and often an expression of latent misogyny. Does casual sex necessarily lead to misogyny, erosion respect between genders, lower self-esteem among the participants, and a permanently damaged ability to form lasting love relationships? No. In practice, does it almost always produce these things? Yes. Casual sex works in theory but not in practice; humans aren't meant to have their hormone levels and emotions jacked around like that.

ii 18y ago
Whatever downsides "fuck it" attitudes and casual sex might have they are not comparable to racism or homophobia in any way IMHO.
- time_management 18y ago
  I'm sorry if you thought I was trivializing the worse evils (which are orders of magnitude worse, in this case) by listing them in conjunction with petty ones. This was not my intention at all. I see all of these social illnesses as interlinked through a root disregard for humanity, but I didn't articulate this well and seem to have unintentionally offended a lot of people. My apologies.
riklomas 18y ago
Don't be so moralizing, if you can't say anything nice...
anamax 18y ago
Except that "hipster irony" isn't unique to hipsters and didn't start with them. The more that you explain, the more it seems that your whole position and conclusion depends on historical "facts" that simply aren't true.
unalone 18y ago
My use of the word "irony" referred, in particular, to the hipster phenomenon and the general "fuck it" attitude toward life and other people. I'm in the midst of hipster friends. That's not how it works. First off, the "fuck it" attitude stems from nihilism. Some people are nihilist, some are idealist, some are a mix. Nihilism has existed for a while: see Sex Pistols for an instance of great art stemming from nihilism, and that was before the 80s. The idea of "hipster irony" comes not from jerkoffirony, but from a real dislike of social norms. I dunno if I've seen this stated before online, but this is how it works. You get very standard attitudes towards things. Liking Power Rangers becomes lame once you're in, say, middle school. Or listening to ABBA. At some point, a certain sort of person (I tend to identify it as the thespian crowd) decides you're allowed to say you like whatever you want. Some people get inspired by this to be honest to themselves. Other people do it ironically. It's like the punk movement was. Then, people ripped clothes and lived like animals to oppose society. Now punk is an accepted means, and hipsterism becomes the rejection of typical bounds. That's why hipster bands so often are acoustic or electronic in callback to the 80s, why many hipster artists sound really awful (Kimya Dawson, f'rinstance). It's because 80s sounds, while lame, still sound really catchy, and sometimes a bad singer fits the song. So think of it as new-generation punk. Hipsters wear t-shirts because they like the slogans on them. Eventually people do it just to look hip and so it becomes lame and overused, but the intent is to just do what you want to do. People miss that just like they missed what punk was about until it was accepted. So my friends wear corduroy pants and t-shirts and big jackets and listen to Fleet Foxes and the Decemberists and even read Pitchfork. We all occasionally say things ironically. It's not this wide circlejerk. It's a bunch of smart, witty people who think it's more fun to constantly be verbally dueling than it is to spout movie quotes like the Monty Pythonites do, and who like a wide variety of stuff because it all sounds good. Hipsters are good fun people who aren't ruining society. They also have less casual sex, so that's a good thing!
- yters 18y ago
  If its about just doing what you want to do, why are people who want to be like their friends mocked? That's all hipsters are doing to, its just more convoluted.
  - 18y ago
ahoyhere 18y ago
Casual sex is misogynist? You should take a good look in the mirror, mister.
- yters 18y ago
  It is. Men can sleep around without ill effect, but it destroys a woman emotionally. Women need the security of social stigma against cads. So, tricking women to think casual sex is good is misogynistic since it is all about using women. Certain aspects of feminism look like they were actually invented by very evil men.
  - menloparkbum 18y ago
    Men can sleep around without ill effect? Tell that to my chlamydia infection. Ba-da-bing! Seriously though, your observation is totally cultural and most certainly doesn't apply in the Bay Area. There's no real stigma against casual sex here and since there is a 10:1 male to female ratio, the women are totally in control. Women here have the luxury of figuring out exactly what combination of dick size, personality, paycheck and hairdo they like. The men, rather than being predatory cads, are reduced to fretting over whether or not they should get a tattoo or an $80 t-shirt in hopes of maybe possibly (probably not) attracting the attention of a google PM.
    - time_management 18y ago
      Remind me not to move to the Bay Area unless I have a girlfriend at the time. Sex and the City bitches are disgusting. I hate to admit this, but I take pleasure in the thought of them spending their middle-aged years sobbing every time a school bus passes by.
      - anamax 18y ago
        > I hate to admit this, but I take pleasure in the thought of them spending their middle-aged years sobbing every time a school bus passes by. Someone needs a double-helping of "It's not about you." Your cocoon may work for you, but its not reality. There's nothing wrong with being a judgemental prick, but it doesn't work well with "I'm just good-hearted and caring".
sutro 18y ago
Casual sex works in theory but not in practice. I suspect that your own sex life could use less theory and more practice.