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> There are elementary school teachers in San Francisco whose total pay and benefits in 2023 were $150k or more: In 2025 San Francisco we have ads on buses adv

by Swizec 1y ago

> There are elementary school teachers in San Francisco whose total pay and benefits in 2023 were $150k or more: In 2025 San Francisco we have ads on buses advertising low income housing to people making less than $185k/year. https://x.com/Swizec/status/1972053995050119631 https://x.com/Swizec/status/1972053995050119631

Waterluvian 1y ago
America really does sometimes looks like a first world and third world country in a trench coat.
- arjie 1y ago
  Because we provide social housing for people? That seems hardly a sin. The limits published here seem reasonable https://www.sf.gov/reports--may-2024--income-and-rent-limits-inclusionary-rental-units https://www.sf.gov/reports--may-2024--income-and-rent-limits... So a primary school teacher who is the sole breadwinner of a 4-person household will be eligible for housing support. That doesn't seem that outlandish. If anything it seems very much like a developed nation property. I grew up in the Third World: America is nothing like it. Even the ways it fails are not like the Third World.
  - Waterluvian 1y ago
    Oh no no, just a superficial observation of how you can see a streetcar ad that reads like budget homes… for those under $185k. My region’s version of that ad is just as ridiculous to 95% of the world. However I do think the U.S. does have a lot of range, which does look really weird at times. You can cross a county line and suddenly the roads turn into an amusement park ride. I think that’s the main “whaaat?” That comes to mind when I’ve travelled there. Well, that and abandoned cars on the side of the road.
    - arjie 1y ago
      That is an entirely justified opinion. The range is truly wild.
rahimnathwani 1y ago
That $185k is 110% of AMI (Area Median Income) for a household of 5 people.[0] If you're a single-income household with 4 dependents then, yes, you may find it difficult to live in San Francisco. But, again, CoL isn't relevant when we're discussing whether a particular job has 'low pay'. My point was (and is) that teachers in San Francisco are well paid compared with people with similar academic achievement and similar capabilities in the same city. Even when you don't adjust for the number of weeks they work. [0] Here are the 2025 110% AMI caps by household size from the City’s chart (gross income, before taxes): 1 person: $120,000 2 people: $137,150 3 people: $154,300 4 people: $171,450 5 people: $185,150 ← this is the "$185k*" you saw 6 people: $198,900 https://media.api.sf.gov/documents/2025_AMI-IncomeLimits-HMFA_08Rw8dU.pdf https://media.api.sf.gov/documents/2025_AMI-IncomeLimits-HMF...
- Swizec 1y ago
  > But, again, CoL isn't relevant when we're discussing whether a particular job has 'low pay' Well it’s a little relevant when talking specific numbers. It’s hard to know if $number is high or low without some reference. Thanks for clarifying the AMI stuff
  - rahimnathwani 1y ago
    It’s hard to know if $number is high or low without some reference. Yes, and the correct reference is pay for other jobs in the same location that require comparable aptitude, level of skill and the like.

by Swizec 1y ago

Waterluvian 1y ago

America really does sometimes looks like a first world and third world country in a trench coat.

arjie 1y ago
Because we provide social housing for people? That seems hardly a sin. The limits published here seem reasonable https://www.sf.gov/reports--may-2024--income-and-rent-limits-inclusionary-rental-units https://www.sf.gov/reports--may-2024--income-and-rent-limits... So a primary school teacher who is the sole breadwinner of a 4-person household will be eligible for housing support. That doesn't seem that outlandish. If anything it seems very much like a developed nation property. I grew up in the Third World: America is nothing like it. Even the ways it fails are not like the Third World.
- Waterluvian 1y ago
  Oh no no, just a superficial observation of how you can see a streetcar ad that reads like budget homes… for those under $185k. My region’s version of that ad is just as ridiculous to 95% of the world. However I do think the U.S. does have a lot of range, which does look really weird at times. You can cross a county line and suddenly the roads turn into an amusement park ride. I think that’s the main “whaaat?” That comes to mind when I’ve travelled there. Well, that and abandoned cars on the side of the road.
  - arjie 1y ago
    That is an entirely justified opinion. The range is truly wild.

rahimnathwani 1y ago

That $185k is 110% of AMI (Area Median Income) for a household of 5 people.[0] If you're a single-income household with 4 dependents then, yes, you may find it difficult to live in San Francisco. But, again, CoL isn't relevant when we're discussing whether a particular job has 'low pay'. My point was (and is) that teachers in San Francisco are well paid compared with people with similar academic achievement and similar capabilities in the same city. Even when you don't adjust for the number of weeks they work. [0] Here are the 2025 110% AMI caps by household size from the City’s chart (gross income, before taxes): 1 person: $120,000 2 people: $137,150 3 people: $154,300 4 people: $171,450 5 people: $185,150 ← this is the "$185k*" you saw 6 people: $198,900 https://media.api.sf.gov/documents/2025_AMI-IncomeLimits-HMFA_08Rw8dU.pdf https://media.api.sf.gov/documents/2025_AMI-IncomeLimits-HMF...

Swizec 1y ago
> But, again, CoL isn't relevant when we're discussing whether a particular job has 'low pay' Well it’s a little relevant when talking specific numbers. It’s hard to know if $number is high or low without some reference. Thanks for clarifying the AMI stuff
- rahimnathwani 1y ago
  It’s hard to know if $number is high or low without some reference. Yes, and the correct reference is pay for other jobs in the same location that require comparable aptitude, level of skill and the like.