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But this is likely also an attempt to market to people who think things like "but I don't want to be exposed to chemicals" while not realizing water is a chemic

But this is likely also an attempt to market to people who think things like "but I don't want to be exposed to chemicals" while not realizing water is a chemical.

rovr138 1y ago
they might not drink water
- dmix 1y ago
  Most likely so if they buy their food at walmart.
  - pfexec 1y ago
    It's extremely presumptuous of you to assume that everyone who shops at Walmart are uneducated simpletons. Maybe they're smarter than you with money. The same box of cereal that costs less than $2 at Walmart is almost $6 at Whole Foods.
    - dmix 1y ago
      I meant overweight not dumb. Fat people (like my dad) don't drink a lot of water, they drink soda and sugar water. And every time I grocery shop at Walmart is pretty noticeable demographic of people buying crates of coke.
alrs 1y ago
This is the kind of nerd-snark that makes normal people not trust anything from the mouths of "experts." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM
- logicchains 1y ago
  [flagged]
- vel0city 1y ago
  The thing is, there are many chemicals which are safe to drink in reasonable amounts, and many chemicals that are not safe to drink in any amount. People deciding not to eat something because "it has chemicals in it" is a pretty ignorant take.
  - TheFreim 1y ago
    > People deciding not to eat something because "it has chemicals in it" is a pretty ignorant take. When people say this they are obviously not referring the the definition of "chemical" that a chemist would use. Pretending otherwise is exactly the "nerd-snark" mentioned above which makes people distrust experts because they clearly aren't intending to use the term "chemical" in a sense that would include substances like water.
    - pixl97 1y ago
      Right, just like the town that banned dihydrogen monoxide.
  - macNchz 1y ago
    There are too many food (and personal care and clothing etc) chemical additives for the average person to remotely be able to keep up with the details of each, especially given not all products even need to disclose them–the charitable, or simply non snarky, reading of that kind of comment is more like "I don't want to eat food with unnecessary/under-studied additives in it."
- psunavy03 1y ago
  The point is it's totally possible for some artificial dyes to potentially be harmful and need to be regulated, but eliminating them all just because they're "artificial" is woo-woo nonsense on the same order as my deliberately parodic example. Know what else is artificial? Insulin and penicillin.
  - kelipso 1y ago
    It’s not. The one who controls the null hypothesis rules the world.. Should a new dye be banned until it is proven safe, or should a new dye be banned only when it has been proven unsafe? The answer to the above question is not a scientific one. It has to do with how we want to operate as a society, it’s a political or social issue.
  - max51 1y ago
    >Know what else is artificial? Insulin and penicillin. Even if they may have side effects/allergies, we tolerate them because they provide extremely large benefits to the population. You can't compare that to a chemical we use to make the colors of candies pop more. No one is dying or getting seriously ill because their Fruit Loops had bland and unsaturated colors.
dlivingston 1y ago
Very funny, but also flippant and glib. When people -- myself included -- say they have a problem with chemicals in food, they of course mean artificial chemicals: that is, compounds, preservatives, dyes, and flavors that are non-naturally present for that particular food item and were added for their shelf life, taste, aesthetic, or addictive properties. Next time you visit your grocery store, go read the ingredients list of a few different boxed and frozen items. It's not uncommon to see three- or four- dozen ingredients on items that should have less than 10. While all of these compounds may have FDA approval and studies verifying their safety for ingestion, please keep several things in mind: 1. Studies use large, population-based sample sizes and their effects are based on their statistical significance on these populations. In other words, "side effects" are a population-level phenomenon, not an individual phenomenon. It is plausible that individual side effects are hidden as statistical noise. This is a problem with pharmacological studies as well and there is no easy solution to it AFAIK. 2. We have a massive obesity crisis in this country (and increasingly globally). Sedentary lifestyles and increased caloric intake is no doubt part of this, but it is blindingly obvious (to me, at least) that the meat of the problem is environmental, primarily diets, and these compounds are wreaking havoc on the endocrine systems of the population causing a massive uptick in obesity and diabetes.
- hgomersall 1y ago
  3. Long term effects are very hard to study and tease out. 4. Interactions are even harder to establish, since the possible different cocktails and biologies combinatorially explode. This is the primary reason for a precautionary principle in introducing new compounds into our diets.
- gruez 1y ago
  >1. Studies use large, population-based sample sizes and their effects are based on their statistical significance on these populations. In other words, "side effects" are a population-level phenomenon, not an individual phenomenon. It is plausible that individual side effects are hidden as statistical noise. This is a problem with pharmacological studies as well and there is no easy solution to it AFAIK. I don't get it, are you trying to imply there might be 0.0001% of people with negative side effects, they're not getting picked up, and for that reason those substances should have never been approved? If so what does that say about allergens? If the Colombian exchange happened today, should we ban peanuts on the basis that a few percent of people get side effects? >but it is blindingly obvious (to me, at least) that the meat of the problem is environmental, primarily diets, and these compounds are wreaking havoc on the endocrine systems of the population causing a massive uptick in obesity and diabetes. How is it "blindingly obvious" that it's caused by artificial colors specifically though? Otherwise it's a leap to go from "there must be something in the food" to "we should ban artificial colors".
slowmovintarget 1y ago
That comment is right up there with deliberately misunderstanding "Organic" food labeling for anything carbon-based.
kelipso 1y ago
Middle school level argument.. Good luck on making better arguments I guess.

But this is likely also an attempt to market to people who think things like "but I don't want to be exposed to chemicals" while not realizing water is a chemical.

rovr138 1y ago

they might not drink water

dmix 1y ago
Most likely so if they buy their food at walmart.
- pfexec 1y ago
  It's extremely presumptuous of you to assume that everyone who shops at Walmart are uneducated simpletons. Maybe they're smarter than you with money. The same box of cereal that costs less than $2 at Walmart is almost $6 at Whole Foods.
  - dmix 1y ago
    I meant overweight not dumb. Fat people (like my dad) don't drink a lot of water, they drink soda and sugar water. And every time I grocery shop at Walmart is pretty noticeable demographic of people buying crates of coke.

alrs 1y ago

This is the kind of nerd-snark that makes normal people not trust anything from the mouths of "experts." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM

logicchains 1y ago
[flagged]
vel0city 1y ago
The thing is, there are many chemicals which are safe to drink in reasonable amounts, and many chemicals that are not safe to drink in any amount. People deciding not to eat something because "it has chemicals in it" is a pretty ignorant take.
- TheFreim 1y ago
  > People deciding not to eat something because "it has chemicals in it" is a pretty ignorant take. When people say this they are obviously not referring the the definition of "chemical" that a chemist would use. Pretending otherwise is exactly the "nerd-snark" mentioned above which makes people distrust experts because they clearly aren't intending to use the term "chemical" in a sense that would include substances like water.
  - pixl97 1y ago
    Right, just like the town that banned dihydrogen monoxide.
- macNchz 1y ago
  There are too many food (and personal care and clothing etc) chemical additives for the average person to remotely be able to keep up with the details of each, especially given not all products even need to disclose them–the charitable, or simply non snarky, reading of that kind of comment is more like "I don't want to eat food with unnecessary/under-studied additives in it."
psunavy03 1y ago
The point is it's totally possible for some artificial dyes to potentially be harmful and need to be regulated, but eliminating them all just because they're "artificial" is woo-woo nonsense on the same order as my deliberately parodic example. Know what else is artificial? Insulin and penicillin.
- kelipso 1y ago
  It’s not. The one who controls the null hypothesis rules the world.. Should a new dye be banned until it is proven safe, or should a new dye be banned only when it has been proven unsafe? The answer to the above question is not a scientific one. It has to do with how we want to operate as a society, it’s a political or social issue.
- max51 1y ago
  >Know what else is artificial? Insulin and penicillin. Even if they may have side effects/allergies, we tolerate them because they provide extremely large benefits to the population. You can't compare that to a chemical we use to make the colors of candies pop more. No one is dying or getting seriously ill because their Fruit Loops had bland and unsaturated colors.

dlivingston 1y ago

Very funny, but also flippant and glib. When people -- myself included -- say they have a problem with chemicals in food, they of course mean artificial chemicals: that is, compounds, preservatives, dyes, and flavors that are non-naturally present for that particular food item and were added for their shelf life, taste, aesthetic, or addictive properties. Next time you visit your grocery store, go read the ingredients list of a few different boxed and frozen items. It's not uncommon to see three- or four- dozen ingredients on items that should have less than 10. While all of these compounds may have FDA approval and studies verifying their safety for ingestion, please keep several things in mind: 1. Studies use large, population-based sample sizes and their effects are based on their statistical significance on these populations. In other words, "side effects" are a population-level phenomenon, not an individual phenomenon. It is plausible that individual side effects are hidden as statistical noise. This is a problem with pharmacological studies as well and there is no easy solution to it AFAIK. 2. We have a massive obesity crisis in this country (and increasingly globally). Sedentary lifestyles and increased caloric intake is no doubt part of this, but it is blindingly obvious (to me, at least) that the meat of the problem is environmental, primarily diets, and these compounds are wreaking havoc on the endocrine systems of the population causing a massive uptick in obesity and diabetes.

hgomersall 1y ago
3. Long term effects are very hard to study and tease out. 4. Interactions are even harder to establish, since the possible different cocktails and biologies combinatorially explode. This is the primary reason for a precautionary principle in introducing new compounds into our diets.
gruez 1y ago
>1. Studies use large, population-based sample sizes and their effects are based on their statistical significance on these populations. In other words, "side effects" are a population-level phenomenon, not an individual phenomenon. It is plausible that individual side effects are hidden as statistical noise. This is a problem with pharmacological studies as well and there is no easy solution to it AFAIK. I don't get it, are you trying to imply there might be 0.0001% of people with negative side effects, they're not getting picked up, and for that reason those substances should have never been approved? If so what does that say about allergens? If the Colombian exchange happened today, should we ban peanuts on the basis that a few percent of people get side effects? >but it is blindingly obvious (to me, at least) that the meat of the problem is environmental, primarily diets, and these compounds are wreaking havoc on the endocrine systems of the population causing a massive uptick in obesity and diabetes. How is it "blindingly obvious" that it's caused by artificial colors specifically though? Otherwise it's a leap to go from "there must be something in the food" to "we should ban artificial colors".

slowmovintarget 1y ago

That comment is right up there with deliberately misunderstanding "Organic" food labeling for anything carbon-based.

kelipso 1y ago

Middle school level argument.. Good luck on making better arguments I guess.