5 ms·

UK once again demands backdoor to Apple's encrypted cloud storage

94 points by otterley 1y ago

hereme888 1y ago
That is some evil government.
- PicassoCTs 1y ago
  [dead]
Pesthuf 1y ago
Looks like I finally found some common ground with the US government. May the UK fail again.
hadlock 1y ago
Is there some sort of way short of constitutional amendment (or UK equivalent) to avoid having to defend this "legal challenge" every time it comes up? This is so exhausting I don't even bother clicking on the article, I just write a check to the EFF. I feel like the toothpaste is already out of the tube on effective, low effort, decentralized encryption, but there's plenty of $$$ government contracting dollars to be made integrating government systems with megacorp datastorage, so there will always be someone else pushing to make this happen.
- ben_w 1y ago
  The closest the UK has to a constitution-like protection is getting it to sign an international treaty, e.g. what's behind the Human Rights Act — after Brexit, some of the usual suspects have been campaigning to also leave the corresponding treaty, because it limits the sovreign right of each government to completely disregard what the previous one did. To answer your question, the other solution is to do what I did in response to the Investigatory Powers Act 2016: leave the country.
  - blibble 1y ago
    > The closest the UK has to a constitution-like protection is getting it to sign an international treaty international treaties have no effect under UK law, unless Parliament decides to pass an Act containing its provisions this is called dualism for example, the effect of all EU law in the UK was dis-applied with an Act of Parliament, by a single line: > The European Communities Act 1972 is repealed on exit day. (European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018)
    - ben_w 1y ago
      > international treaties have no effect under UK law, unless Parliament decides to pass an Act containing its provisions Indeed, all I claim is that leaving treaties comes with consequences that mean they stick, hard to change in practice even when it's theoretically just another law that only needs a parliamentary majority to delete. Functional closest equivalent, not identical in every detail.
- Traster 1y ago
  Just to be clear, the UK system is much simpler than the US system. There is just a bad law. That law could be repealed with a majority in parliament tomorrow, until it is repealed (spoiler it absolutely will not be repealed) the regulator can and will file these law suits. The best we can hope for is that the regulator (Home Office) just don't bother trying to enforce the law. The core problem is the people writing the laws are know-nothing busy bodies who write crap laws and then cause massive problems, and we've demonstrated over the last 18 months that you can fire literally 70% of the UK Parliament, replace them all and still end up with the same rules written by the same know-nothing busy bodies.
  - malux85 1y ago
    Is the problem that the system is inherently broken, or does the problem sit in that 30% ?
    - magospietato 1y ago
      Whitehall - the UK civil service - persists between governments in a fairly unique way. It's essentially a political entity that exists beyond democracy that has pinky-promised to be politically ambivalent. To paraphrase an adage I've forgotten: you can skim as much shit as you like off the Thames, it'll still be a filthy river.
      - jpfromlondon 1y ago
        an adage that is certainly true in the analogy but no longer true of the Thames.
- dapperdrake 1y ago
  Any decade bow the answer will dawn on someone.
petre 1y ago
In the real world one would get the cold shoulder. In the UK, they get the Boston Tea Party and the IRA as a response for the British government being smart.
doublerabbit 1y ago
When the current Labour party doesn't want us voting for the Reform Party. This stuff isn't going to win votes. The Reform party, a far-right party who tell us they will retract all these laws; not that I believe them.
- bArray 1y ago
  There's a claim that the Reform Party is extreme-right fascists, but I'm only looking at one party in power pulling dictatorship moves. They're not even done either, there is the intention to also add this digital ID on top - and I'm sure at some point that will also be tied to your online activities.
  - doublerabbit 1y ago
    I've removed the statement because your right and wrote in haste. It is anecdotal and self-bias but Nigel Farage being the leader of the UK is next level dystopian-bleak. Someone who pushed for Brexit, supports Hard Euroscepticism (yet has an European wife) running a party promoting that human-made climate change isn't a thing, want "illegal" immigrants thrown out of the UK, removal from Europe's Convention of Human Rights is a party I don't want to imagine being in power. With regards to my online activities, I am already supposedly a terrorist for using Tor.
    - bArray 1y ago
      > I've removed the statement because your right and wrote in haste. It happens to us all. > Someone who pushed for Brexit, supports Hard Euroscepticism, (yet has an European wife) [..] I think the largest push was for sovereignty of the nation, which is a huge win for democracy. The UK shouldn't have people making important decisions that cannot be unelected. I don't think that Brexit was driven by a hatred of Europeans or European nation states. > [..] and runs a party promoting that human-made climate change isn't a thing, [..] Not sure that this is the case, I think the case being made is that net-zero is being chased religiously at the cost of economic growth. If the UK want to be a leader in AI for example, then the UK needs access to cheap reliable energy. > [..] wants immigrants thrown out of the UK is a party I don't want to imagine being in power. I think to be clear, they want economically unproductive immigrants and criminals out of the UK. This seems to be the policy of all the major parties currently. > With regards to my online activities, I'm already a terrorist for using Tor. As they say whilst taking your privacy away: "if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear".
ebbi 1y ago
Curious this has come up again just around the time where the UK government has signed a new strategic partnership with Palantir...
bArray 1y ago
Dear Apple, I would like to remind you that many of the idiots pushing for this enjoy the use of iPhones and their encrypted services. I think that if the UI were to regularly remind the user that their data is no longer properly protected, that some of those idiots may be under more political pressure. Sincerely, UK person
- londons_explore 1y ago
  Perhaps a dialogue saying: [Keep my messages encrypted] [Send a copy of my messages to government authorities for checking] Then when you choose the first one, disable the button with a toast saying "local laws do not allow this option, please choose another".
commandersaki 1y ago
The UK Home Office demanded in early September that Apple create a means to allow officials access to encrypted cloud backups, but stipulated that the order applied only to British citizens’ data, according to people briefed on the matter. Is there any information about this demand, was it in the form of a TCN? Both Apple and the Home Office are restricted from discussing TCNs by law. Didn't Apple win a court case recently where they could openly discuss why they removed ADP in the UK?
racedude 1y ago
I've been trying but im tired boss; ADP should just be default for everyone at this point... I think you can use a VPN to turn it on if youre blocked, btw

94 points by otterley 1y ago

hereme888 1y ago

That is some evil government.

PicassoCTs 1y ago
[dead]

Pesthuf 1y ago

Looks like I finally found some common ground with the US government. May the UK fail again.

hadlock 1y ago

Is there some sort of way short of constitutional amendment (or UK equivalent) to avoid having to defend this "legal challenge" every time it comes up? This is so exhausting I don't even bother clicking on the article, I just write a check to the EFF. I feel like the toothpaste is already out of the tube on effective, low effort, decentralized encryption, but there's plenty of $$$ government contracting dollars to be made integrating government systems with megacorp datastorage, so there will always be someone else pushing to make this happen.

ben_w 1y ago
The closest the UK has to a constitution-like protection is getting it to sign an international treaty, e.g. what's behind the Human Rights Act — after Brexit, some of the usual suspects have been campaigning to also leave the corresponding treaty, because it limits the sovreign right of each government to completely disregard what the previous one did. To answer your question, the other solution is to do what I did in response to the Investigatory Powers Act 2016: leave the country.
- blibble 1y ago
  > The closest the UK has to a constitution-like protection is getting it to sign an international treaty international treaties have no effect under UK law, unless Parliament decides to pass an Act containing its provisions this is called dualism for example, the effect of all EU law in the UK was dis-applied with an Act of Parliament, by a single line: > The European Communities Act 1972 is repealed on exit day. (European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018)
  - ben_w 1y ago
    > international treaties have no effect under UK law, unless Parliament decides to pass an Act containing its provisions Indeed, all I claim is that leaving treaties comes with consequences that mean they stick, hard to change in practice even when it's theoretically just another law that only needs a parliamentary majority to delete. Functional closest equivalent, not identical in every detail.
Traster 1y ago
Just to be clear, the UK system is much simpler than the US system. There is just a bad law. That law could be repealed with a majority in parliament tomorrow, until it is repealed (spoiler it absolutely will not be repealed) the regulator can and will file these law suits. The best we can hope for is that the regulator (Home Office) just don't bother trying to enforce the law. The core problem is the people writing the laws are know-nothing busy bodies who write crap laws and then cause massive problems, and we've demonstrated over the last 18 months that you can fire literally 70% of the UK Parliament, replace them all and still end up with the same rules written by the same know-nothing busy bodies.
- malux85 1y ago
  Is the problem that the system is inherently broken, or does the problem sit in that 30% ?
  - magospietato 1y ago
    Whitehall - the UK civil service - persists between governments in a fairly unique way. It's essentially a political entity that exists beyond democracy that has pinky-promised to be politically ambivalent. To paraphrase an adage I've forgotten: you can skim as much shit as you like off the Thames, it'll still be a filthy river.
    - jpfromlondon 1y ago
      an adage that is certainly true in the analogy but no longer true of the Thames.
dapperdrake 1y ago
Any decade bow the answer will dawn on someone.

petre 1y ago

In the real world one would get the cold shoulder. In the UK, they get the Boston Tea Party and the IRA as a response for the British government being smart.

doublerabbit 1y ago

When the current Labour party doesn't want us voting for the Reform Party. This stuff isn't going to win votes. The Reform party, a far-right party who tell us they will retract all these laws; not that I believe them.

bArray 1y ago
There's a claim that the Reform Party is extreme-right fascists, but I'm only looking at one party in power pulling dictatorship moves. They're not even done either, there is the intention to also add this digital ID on top - and I'm sure at some point that will also be tied to your online activities.
- doublerabbit 1y ago
  I've removed the statement because your right and wrote in haste. It is anecdotal and self-bias but Nigel Farage being the leader of the UK is next level dystopian-bleak. Someone who pushed for Brexit, supports Hard Euroscepticism (yet has an European wife) running a party promoting that human-made climate change isn't a thing, want "illegal" immigrants thrown out of the UK, removal from Europe's Convention of Human Rights is a party I don't want to imagine being in power. With regards to my online activities, I am already supposedly a terrorist for using Tor.
  - bArray 1y ago
    > I've removed the statement because your right and wrote in haste. It happens to us all. > Someone who pushed for Brexit, supports Hard Euroscepticism, (yet has an European wife) [..] I think the largest push was for sovereignty of the nation, which is a huge win for democracy. The UK shouldn't have people making important decisions that cannot be unelected. I don't think that Brexit was driven by a hatred of Europeans or European nation states. > [..] and runs a party promoting that human-made climate change isn't a thing, [..] Not sure that this is the case, I think the case being made is that net-zero is being chased religiously at the cost of economic growth. If the UK want to be a leader in AI for example, then the UK needs access to cheap reliable energy. > [..] wants immigrants thrown out of the UK is a party I don't want to imagine being in power. I think to be clear, they want economically unproductive immigrants and criminals out of the UK. This seems to be the policy of all the major parties currently. > With regards to my online activities, I'm already a terrorist for using Tor. As they say whilst taking your privacy away: "if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear".

ebbi 1y ago

Curious this has come up again just around the time where the UK government has signed a new strategic partnership with Palantir...

bArray 1y ago

Dear Apple, I would like to remind you that many of the idiots pushing for this enjoy the use of iPhones and their encrypted services. I think that if the UI were to regularly remind the user that their data is no longer properly protected, that some of those idiots may be under more political pressure. Sincerely, UK person

londons_explore 1y ago
Perhaps a dialogue saying: [Keep my messages encrypted] [Send a copy of my messages to government authorities for checking] Then when you choose the first one, disable the button with a toast saying "local laws do not allow this option, please choose another".

commandersaki 1y ago

The UK Home Office demanded in early September that Apple create a means to allow officials access to encrypted cloud backups, but stipulated that the order applied only to British citizens’ data, according to people briefed on the matter. Is there any information about this demand, was it in the form of a TCN? Both Apple and the Home Office are restricted from discussing TCNs by law. Didn't Apple win a court case recently where they could openly discuss why they removed ADP in the UK?

racedude 1y ago

I've been trying but im tired boss; ADP should just be default for everyone at this point... I think you can use a VPN to turn it on if youre blocked, btw