8 ms·

I tried this -- I am undiagnosed, but my kids are diagnosed. On one hand I thought parts over-dramatized, on the other hand I thought parts were watered down.

I tried this -- I am undiagnosed, but my kids are diagnosed. On one hand I thought parts over-dramatized, on the other hand I thought parts were watered down. Misophonia for me does not give me any choice. Either the noise stops or I am leaving. If necessary I will explain later. If the noise stops I am possibly leaving anyway in case it starts again. Fortunately in my case the trigger is pretty obscure, like nails on a chalkboard type of rarity -- people don't actually do that so often. The explanations I thought were dramatized. One of the challenges I think people with autism have is trying to explain their reactions and coming up with things that neurotypical people cannot relate to. It is more like reflexes. I'd be slack-jawed if my co-worker asked me to explain why my leg moved when the doctor hits my knee, "it just does that when you hit it that way", "probably something to do with ligaments, or tendons? IDK". Could you make an "undiagnosed" mode where your scores just go up and down? And the options -- when the people team came through at $bigcorp and announced tiny hotdesking, I filed all the necessary paperwork, gave constructive feedback, worked with my manager etc, but started looking for new work immediately and noped out at the first opportunity. The people team was happy to close the file which was growing fat with demerits like not hanging my coat the right way, but my peers and reports were upset. well done people team! This was at a company that professed to be supportive of neurodivergence.

ecshafer 1y ago
I am not autistic in any way afaik, but "tiny hotdesking" sounds like a torture come up in the seventh circle of hell. > This was at a company that professed to be supportive of neurodivergence. No company is supportive of neurodivergence, if it actually causes a difference. They are supportive if your issue is you need to wear noise cancelling headphones, and they can put your photo on the careers page about how they support neurodivergence.
- lq9AJ8yrfs 1y ago
  Something I am not quite able to compute is why they are so rigid. I paid for a house with enough rooms that I turned one into a generous office. My peers tell me my hobby productivity is off the charts. There is / was no price at which I could solve for an acceptable office environment at this company. At any company I have worked with or heard of. I get that there is back biting and intensive score-keeping, resentment etc, but the act of putting everything on a synchronized linear scale (with sub linear progression) seems cruel. Some people like tchotchkies, some people don't like those esoteric office snacks, some people like mouthwash and shoe polish and fancy towels in the restroom. Why gatekeep it all and shove the same exact bundle of goods down everyone's throats? If they were really minimaxing your next unit of work, this is not an optimal strategy. It's just lazy, a children's tale of how an office might be.
  - oehpr 1y ago
    Because for most people, someone reacting with disinterest for the thing they care about is a rare and upsetting event, not their entire life's experience. That's what it means to be "normal", you align better with your peers. Most people don't need what you need. Most people can work with what you can not. You are choosing to be the exception. You chose to be like this, so unchoose it and stop being a problem. Of course... That's the quiet part. The out loud part is just dismissing everything you say and passing you over for promotion. The objections you have raised, the things you have said. I really understand what you mean. There's evidence all around that the aspects of our experience isn't alien at all. Why can't others see that? At this point I think that not seeing it is necessary mental infrastructure for some people. It's a bridge over an abyss that for us broke. I think the solace I get is that this line of work tends to funnel people of our disposition into it. So we find ourselves less alone than we normally would.
rhubarbtree 1y ago
TIL misophonia. I’ve realised in recent years that I’m quite far on the spectrum. Very obvious when I was young but am exceptionally good at masking now so most people don’t realise. Nowadays I experience misophonia in “attacks” that just come on. Recently I was on public transport and the noise was suddenly so unbearable that I had to get the hell out of there, hadn’t really felt like that since I was a kid. Fight or flight feeling. When I was a kid I had a lot of hearing tests as a result, ASD was not on anyone’s radar. Didn’t realise this had a name.
- R_D_Olivaw 1y ago
  I carry silicone putty ear plugs with me pretty much all the time. They are very squishy and I can place then in my ear and depending on how thick I make them, they have varying levels of blocking out sound. Super useful if I want extra blocking or just a little light blocking so I can still hear things around me, but dampened. They have been a life changer for me. The best kind I've found are Mack's. Maybe they would help you too.
  - beacon294 1y ago
    Ahh I can't stand that pressure feeling, makes me take them out instantly!!
    - freehorse 1y ago
      ANC over-the-ear headphones can also do a very good job against certain kinds of noises, esp in higher frequences.
      - beacon294 1y ago
        I use sony xm5 over ear if tha's the kind of product you mean? I want something overear for running and lifting though... I sweat a lot.
- boogieknite 1y ago
  my sister has this which led to many awful fights that i didnt understand. now i send this graphic to people in order to describe it: https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/130843014_1580545172130687_1352738877621288823_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=AlIntEHgPBoQ7kNvwHeFM9W&_nc_oc=Adk4_m0IEYB_3fnuGsrwJM5Ep2LoLw4qtf8cBZdPQeBo0fSYCGBGcU-Vcf-QmfGcBtw&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio2-1.fna&_nc_gid=9dhyBtcIstBLQsvYJfuR3Q&oh=00_AfbpRxqiYfQkCC-xm_Z7GWEuD7A4ploEYYoIMVBVJsgtOQ&oe=6904F0B9 https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/130843014...
palmotea 1y ago
> This was at a company that professed to be supportive of neurodivergence. It's easy to mouth slogans, and modern companies employ teams of specialists in that department. You can't trust their words, which should be assumed to be lies, only their actions (especially their actions when they're under some pressure). Here's an absurdly clear example: I recently listened to these podcasts about Saudi Arabia's Neom project. It is hyper-dysfunctional and was run by a guy who literally bragged about treating his subordinates as slaves trying to work them to death. But all the responses from the project are pitch-perfect corporate "we value our employees," "we follow best practices," etc. https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-1-skiing-in-the-desert/ae18c9d9-f707-4e13-a193-dd7b98f110bd?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAivZw9lsS66iUD1mNWkM6u3ksaVJzsrIskcrhnVhwLrMJkuNEv3CAk4&gaa_ts=68dd66db&gaa_sig=kTxkZ3-FjMFAGWXwQaA_p1afH9ZmZs_7e2_eFqTfJ8BjVPQwfrM6cm1tDUOzHdtJPwVMLXxwQgCiOlCYwPkumg%3D%3D https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-1-skiing-in... https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-2-the-emperors-new-clothes/9dfb311a-34e3-41c7-b51b-af05e1d9a41f?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAgVkmONx46-I71obD1Tziu-wXAYSg88fcBSKQ0LnRrGVI6l5sW_CYS_&gaa_ts=68dd66db&gaa_sig=7VDJwmkWmkgOz4osdu_ruraAKiuvxw0K1_6MEyTt2mSIH6obju8PVS4lzVWP13HeKAatCh2RnlmVLLE2wnRqnA%3D%3D https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-2-the-emper...
- sfink 1y ago
  If a company professes to be supportive of neurodivergence, it means either (1) they're supportive of neurodivergence; or (2) they are hostile to neurodivergence and have gotten into trouble for it, so have strong motivation to claim that they are supportive. There will probably be written policies and strongly-worded emails that are supportive of neurodivergence, which enable them to continue being hostile to neurodivergence. I would guess there's far more of (2) going around than (1). This is an overly polarized view -- what does "supportive" even mean? What forms are actually deemed permissible? -- but it's probably more right than wrong. It's like the schools with posters everywhere declaring "Zero tolerance for bullying" or "Bully free zone". Except that there is no (1) at those places. Those signs mean they have a problem with bullying and haven't come up with any solutions.
qwertytyyuu 1y ago
yeah the misophonia one confused me too. Why is the radio even on, why does turning if off use up so much energy?
novok 1y ago
One problem is you can have 2+ neurodivergents or autistic people with conflicting needs or ideal environments. You can only do so much past a certain point in light of that condition. One needs a bright environment to stay awake, another is sensitive to light. Hyposensitive and hyper sensitive. One needs the volume low and the other high in the same meeting. One gets easily distracted by another stimming that they need to stay focused. It gets frustrating fast. Autistic people can get sick of other autistic people's shit. Pathological demand avoidance can just make it near impossible to work with them in a normal context and on and on it goes.
- lq9AJ8yrfs 1y ago
  Those all seem like easy problems to solve. Draw straws and one person dials in from their desk or a phone closet. Take advantage of multiple locations, which are frequently if not always part of the landscape. I had a similar experience, there was a lady on the same floor who was sensitive to light, versus I had a plant that was dying, so I bought a timer and a desk lamp and set it directly under the lamp to run after hours, and we kept the lights dim during the day. At some point the rigidity is just another type of enshittification, there to subtract. Ingrained in their culture and part of their prerogative. Denying them the privilege is an insult that earns greater retribution. Pour encourager les autres. It would literally cost them nothing to be flexible. Solzhenitsyn level material. Suggests a new unit of measure, the Solz, which characterizes how occult and byzantine the rules are and how vindictive and arbitrary the application. Bonus points for tail-eating and Lysenkoist aspects. Stalin era normalized to 1. I had "exceeds" ratings the whole time at this job, btw. I am told my contributions live on 10 years later, I can't say that about most of my work experience.

ecshafer 1y ago

I am not autistic in any way afaik, but "tiny hotdesking" sounds like a torture come up in the seventh circle of hell. > This was at a company that professed to be supportive of neurodivergence. No company is supportive of neurodivergence, if it actually causes a difference. They are supportive if your issue is you need to wear noise cancelling headphones, and they can put your photo on the careers page about how they support neurodivergence.

lq9AJ8yrfs 1y ago
Something I am not quite able to compute is why they are so rigid. I paid for a house with enough rooms that I turned one into a generous office. My peers tell me my hobby productivity is off the charts. There is / was no price at which I could solve for an acceptable office environment at this company. At any company I have worked with or heard of. I get that there is back biting and intensive score-keeping, resentment etc, but the act of putting everything on a synchronized linear scale (with sub linear progression) seems cruel. Some people like tchotchkies, some people don't like those esoteric office snacks, some people like mouthwash and shoe polish and fancy towels in the restroom. Why gatekeep it all and shove the same exact bundle of goods down everyone's throats? If they were really minimaxing your next unit of work, this is not an optimal strategy. It's just lazy, a children's tale of how an office might be.
- oehpr 1y ago
  Because for most people, someone reacting with disinterest for the thing they care about is a rare and upsetting event, not their entire life's experience. That's what it means to be "normal", you align better with your peers. Most people don't need what you need. Most people can work with what you can not. You are choosing to be the exception. You chose to be like this, so unchoose it and stop being a problem. Of course... That's the quiet part. The out loud part is just dismissing everything you say and passing you over for promotion. The objections you have raised, the things you have said. I really understand what you mean. There's evidence all around that the aspects of our experience isn't alien at all. Why can't others see that? At this point I think that not seeing it is necessary mental infrastructure for some people. It's a bridge over an abyss that for us broke. I think the solace I get is that this line of work tends to funnel people of our disposition into it. So we find ourselves less alone than we normally would.

rhubarbtree 1y ago

TIL misophonia. I’ve realised in recent years that I’m quite far on the spectrum. Very obvious when I was young but am exceptionally good at masking now so most people don’t realise. Nowadays I experience misophonia in “attacks” that just come on. Recently I was on public transport and the noise was suddenly so unbearable that I had to get the hell out of there, hadn’t really felt like that since I was a kid. Fight or flight feeling. When I was a kid I had a lot of hearing tests as a result, ASD was not on anyone’s radar. Didn’t realise this had a name.

R_D_Olivaw 1y ago
I carry silicone putty ear plugs with me pretty much all the time. They are very squishy and I can place then in my ear and depending on how thick I make them, they have varying levels of blocking out sound. Super useful if I want extra blocking or just a little light blocking so I can still hear things around me, but dampened. They have been a life changer for me. The best kind I've found are Mack's. Maybe they would help you too.
- beacon294 1y ago
  Ahh I can't stand that pressure feeling, makes me take them out instantly!!
  - freehorse 1y ago
    ANC over-the-ear headphones can also do a very good job against certain kinds of noises, esp in higher frequences.
    - beacon294 1y ago
      I use sony xm5 over ear if tha's the kind of product you mean? I want something overear for running and lifting though... I sweat a lot.
boogieknite 1y ago
my sister has this which led to many awful fights that i didnt understand. now i send this graphic to people in order to describe it: https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/130843014_1580545172130687_1352738877621288823_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=AlIntEHgPBoQ7kNvwHeFM9W&_nc_oc=Adk4_m0IEYB_3fnuGsrwJM5Ep2LoLw4qtf8cBZdPQeBo0fSYCGBGcU-Vcf-QmfGcBtw&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio2-1.fna&_nc_gid=9dhyBtcIstBLQsvYJfuR3Q&oh=00_AfbpRxqiYfQkCC-xm_Z7GWEuD7A4ploEYYoIMVBVJsgtOQ&oe=6904F0B9 https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/130843014...

palmotea 1y ago

> This was at a company that professed to be supportive of neurodivergence. It's easy to mouth slogans, and modern companies employ teams of specialists in that department. You can't trust their words, which should be assumed to be lies, only their actions (especially their actions when they're under some pressure). Here's an absurdly clear example: I recently listened to these podcasts about Saudi Arabia's Neom project. It is hyper-dysfunctional and was run by a guy who literally bragged about treating his subordinates as slaves trying to work them to death. But all the responses from the project are pitch-perfect corporate "we value our employees," "we follow best practices," etc. https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-1-skiing-in-the-desert/ae18c9d9-f707-4e13-a193-dd7b98f110bd?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAivZw9lsS66iUD1mNWkM6u3ksaVJzsrIskcrhnVhwLrMJkuNEv3CAk4&gaa_ts=68dd66db&gaa_sig=kTxkZ3-FjMFAGWXwQaA_p1afH9ZmZs_7e2_eFqTfJ8BjVPQwfrM6cm1tDUOzHdtJPwVMLXxwQgCiOlCYwPkumg%3D%3D https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-1-skiing-in... https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-2-the-emperors-new-clothes/9dfb311a-34e3-41c7-b51b-af05e1d9a41f?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAgVkmONx46-I71obD1Tziu-wXAYSg88fcBSKQ0LnRrGVI6l5sW_CYS_&gaa_ts=68dd66db&gaa_sig=7VDJwmkWmkgOz4osdu_ruraAKiuvxw0K1_6MEyTt2mSIH6obju8PVS4lzVWP13HeKAatCh2RnlmVLLE2wnRqnA%3D%3D https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/neom-pt-2-the-emper...

sfink 1y ago
If a company professes to be supportive of neurodivergence, it means either (1) they're supportive of neurodivergence; or (2) they are hostile to neurodivergence and have gotten into trouble for it, so have strong motivation to claim that they are supportive. There will probably be written policies and strongly-worded emails that are supportive of neurodivergence, which enable them to continue being hostile to neurodivergence. I would guess there's far more of (2) going around than (1). This is an overly polarized view -- what does "supportive" even mean? What forms are actually deemed permissible? -- but it's probably more right than wrong. It's like the schools with posters everywhere declaring "Zero tolerance for bullying" or "Bully free zone". Except that there is no (1) at those places. Those signs mean they have a problem with bullying and haven't come up with any solutions.

qwertytyyuu 1y ago

yeah the misophonia one confused me too. Why is the radio even on, why does turning if off use up so much energy?

novok 1y ago

One problem is you can have 2+ neurodivergents or autistic people with conflicting needs or ideal environments. You can only do so much past a certain point in light of that condition. One needs a bright environment to stay awake, another is sensitive to light. Hyposensitive and hyper sensitive. One needs the volume low and the other high in the same meeting. One gets easily distracted by another stimming that they need to stay focused. It gets frustrating fast. Autistic people can get sick of other autistic people's shit. Pathological demand avoidance can just make it near impossible to work with them in a normal context and on and on it goes.

lq9AJ8yrfs 1y ago
Those all seem like easy problems to solve. Draw straws and one person dials in from their desk or a phone closet. Take advantage of multiple locations, which are frequently if not always part of the landscape. I had a similar experience, there was a lady on the same floor who was sensitive to light, versus I had a plant that was dying, so I bought a timer and a desk lamp and set it directly under the lamp to run after hours, and we kept the lights dim during the day. At some point the rigidity is just another type of enshittification, there to subtract. Ingrained in their culture and part of their prerogative. Denying them the privilege is an insult that earns greater retribution. Pour encourager les autres. It would literally cost them nothing to be flexible. Solzhenitsyn level material. Suggests a new unit of measure, the Solz, which characterizes how occult and byzantine the rules are and how vindictive and arbitrary the application. Bonus points for tail-eating and Lysenkoist aspects. Stalin era normalized to 1. I had "exceeds" ratings the whole time at this job, btw. I am told my contributions live on 10 years later, I can't say that about most of my work experience.