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OMG as I read this I became hyper-skeptical by the end. Some points: In general, in very tangible terms, what are the real benefits for choosing TigerBeetle o
by gwbas1c 1y ago
OMG as I read this I became hyper-skeptical by the end.
Some points:
In general, in very tangible terms, what are the real benefits for choosing TigerBeetle over another distributed database? What are the target use cases? Most of the article is pontificating about academic details in a way that's putting the cart before the horse. (IE, all these details don't matter when a traditional database with traditional backups is "good enough" and comes with no technology risk.)
Who's using TigerBeetle? For what kind of applications?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45436926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45436926 states, "TigerBeetle doesn't support any auth". Poor security is an unprofessional oversight. For all the ambitious things TFA describes, it's shocking that they overlooked "secure by design."
The above-linked post is the only top-level post in this thread that claims real-world experience with TigerBeetle.
But, here are some quotes from the article that don't pass scrutiny:
> Traditional databases assume that if disks fail, they do so predictably with a nice error message. For example, even SQLite’s docs are clear that:
SQLite is a file on disk. It's not something that would work in the same space as TigerDB. Furthermore, this statement needs proof: Do you mean to say that Oracle, MSSQL, MariaDB, Postgress, ect, can't detect when a file is corrupted?
> All in all, you’re looking at 10-20 SQL queries back and forth, while holding row locks across the network roundtrip time, for each transaction.
These can often be solved with stored procedures. In this case, the problem lies somewhere between programmers implementing suboptimal solutions, and databases being too hard to work with.
> Instead of investing in the technology of 30 years ago – when the most popular relational databases today were built
Don't assume that because technology is old, that it's bad. New databases come with higher, not lower, risk.
> They say databases take a decade to build.
Prove it. No really, prove it.
> Biodigital jazz.
It seems like someone is getting so obsessed with the code that they're forgetting the purpose and use case.
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IMO:
Figure out the niche where TigerBeetle excels and traditional databases fall flat. Is it because your query model is easier to program with? Is it because, in a particular situation, TigerBeetle is more performant or cheaper? Is there a niche where existing databases corrupt data more than is tolerable.
Once TigerBeetle excels in a niche, expand outward. (This is the basic plan in "Crossing the Chasm." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm)
Otherwise, this smells like an academic exercise to experiment with different programming techniques, but with no tangible deliverable that has a demonstrated market.
- jorangreef 1y ago> In general, in very tangible terms, what are the real benefits for choosing TigerBeetle over another distributed database? Transaction processing at scale. The world doesn't need another string database. TigerBeetle is an integer database designed for (double-entry) counting, even under extreme write contention. See also our 1000x talk going into what only TB can do (and why stored procedures still suffer from concurrency control in the internal storage engine): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKgfk8lTQuE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKgfk8lTQuE > Do you mean to say that Oracle, MSSQL, MariaDB, Postgress, ect, can't detect when a file is corrupted? Yes. cf. https://www.usenix.org/conference/atc20/presentation/rebello https://www.usenix.org/conference/atc20/presentation/rebello and https://www.usenix.org/conference/fast18/presentation/alagappan https://www.usenix.org/conference/fast18/presentation/alagap... Also read the Jepsen report on TigerBeetle (to see the new storage fault injectors that Kyle Kingsbury added): https://jepsen.io/analyses/tigerbeetle-0.16.11 https://jepsen.io/analyses/tigerbeetle-0.16.11 > with no tangible deliverable that has a demonstrated market. TigerBeetle is already being integrated into national payment systems. We also have a few enterprise customers. Some pretty large brokerages, wealth managements, exchanges and energy utilities. Granted, the company is only 3 years old, so we still have some market to demonstrate.