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The Fit, Yaris, and Accent would have seen significant uptake for over a decade if this hypothesis was true though - both amongst low income and upper income bu

The Fit, Yaris, and Accent would have seen significant uptake for over a decade if this hypothesis was true though - both amongst low income and upper income buyers. Yet the data just doesn't justify the narrative that "small cars" have a PMF in the US and Canada. I get that you and a subset of people really like small cars, but you cannot justify funding low uptake SKUs just because some people like something. > they didn't have any new Fits Because the Fit was discontinued in 2020 because most Americans and Canadians just weren't buying it.

PaulHoule 1y ago
That's what the public relations people say. The evidence of my eye was that there 50 HR-Vs in a row that nobody wanted to buy and that the dealer's plan was to get me to buy one of those instead. Of course sales of the Fit are going to be low if they don't have any in stock and they pressure you into buying an HR-V. My dad had the exact same thing happen to him at American car dealers in the 1970s -- supposedly they had small cars for sale but actually they didn't. Today it is Japanese car dealers doing the same thing. Before the pandemic (discounts disappeared) I used to see big-ass trucks with decals advertising $7000 off. If people really wanted those cars they wouldn't have to discount them to sell them, instead you'd see $7000 discounts on the small cars that supposedly people don't want to buy.
- alephnerd 1y ago
  Is Ithaca representative of the American consumer? Conversely, is Tulsa? Using a single regional data point does not provide proof that there is a financial reason to start building Honda Fits again. And before the pandemic, the HRV began outselling the Honda Fit in the US by 2016 [0] [0] - https://www.honda.com/-/media/Honda-Homepage/PDF/DFB_2024_US_FNL%20_0625%20CONSUMER.pdf https://www.honda.com/-/media/Honda-Homepage/PDF/DFB_2024_US...
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    The industry has a lot of power to manipulate perception. Notably there has been a lot of complaint that cars are too expensive now and smaller cars could be an answer to that even if people like bigger cars. One of the biggest successes now is the Ford Maverick and like any other kind of sub-XL vehicle demand exceeds supply in the lot just about everywhere. That data is all bogus anyway, it reflects the cars that get made, not the cars that people want to buy because the cars that nobody wants to buy get bought by Hertz ina form of ‘demand laundering’. Of course it means you have a bd experience and think I’ll never by an American car though the reality is that I probably won’t buy another Honda because they canceled the fit although they have no data at all that can prove that. Just data that the dealer but 100 HR-Vs which are smaller in the inside and now it is the dealer’s problem.
    - alephnerd 1y ago
      So you are saying your gut feeling is a better source of truth on the state of the entire industry in North America without any proof? > I probably won’t buy another Honda I mean that is your perogative. You can find another brand that better aligns with your needs. I think Nissan has come to own that market, and their American cars are fairly reliable now. > answer to that even if people like bigger cars. One of the biggest successes now is the Ford Maverick Yep. But it's not a subcompact hatchback like the Honda Fit. Which is what I am getting at - the subcompact hatchback just doesn't have significant PMF in the US by the 2020s. Small cars are an opportunity, but it will primarily be CUVs and compact pickups.
ungreased0675 1y ago
Quality also has something to do with it. In the US, small cars generally are the budget option. Lots of plastic trim, cloth seats, limited options. Perhaps the demand was for nice cars, not just small vs big?

PaulHoule 1y ago

That's what the public relations people say. The evidence of my eye was that there 50 HR-Vs in a row that nobody wanted to buy and that the dealer's plan was to get me to buy one of those instead. Of course sales of the Fit are going to be low if they don't have any in stock and they pressure you into buying an HR-V. My dad had the exact same thing happen to him at American car dealers in the 1970s -- supposedly they had small cars for sale but actually they didn't. Today it is Japanese car dealers doing the same thing. Before the pandemic (discounts disappeared) I used to see big-ass trucks with decals advertising $7000 off. If people really wanted those cars they wouldn't have to discount them to sell them, instead you'd see $7000 discounts on the small cars that supposedly people don't want to buy.

alephnerd 1y ago
Is Ithaca representative of the American consumer? Conversely, is Tulsa? Using a single regional data point does not provide proof that there is a financial reason to start building Honda Fits again. And before the pandemic, the HRV began outselling the Honda Fit in the US by 2016 [0] [0] - https://www.honda.com/-/media/Honda-Homepage/PDF/DFB_2024_US_FNL%20_0625%20CONSUMER.pdf https://www.honda.com/-/media/Honda-Homepage/PDF/DFB_2024_US...
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  The industry has a lot of power to manipulate perception. Notably there has been a lot of complaint that cars are too expensive now and smaller cars could be an answer to that even if people like bigger cars. One of the biggest successes now is the Ford Maverick and like any other kind of sub-XL vehicle demand exceeds supply in the lot just about everywhere. That data is all bogus anyway, it reflects the cars that get made, not the cars that people want to buy because the cars that nobody wants to buy get bought by Hertz ina form of ‘demand laundering’. Of course it means you have a bd experience and think I’ll never by an American car though the reality is that I probably won’t buy another Honda because they canceled the fit although they have no data at all that can prove that. Just data that the dealer but 100 HR-Vs which are smaller in the inside and now it is the dealer’s problem.
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    So you are saying your gut feeling is a better source of truth on the state of the entire industry in North America without any proof? > I probably won’t buy another Honda I mean that is your perogative. You can find another brand that better aligns with your needs. I think Nissan has come to own that market, and their American cars are fairly reliable now. > answer to that even if people like bigger cars. One of the biggest successes now is the Ford Maverick Yep. But it's not a subcompact hatchback like the Honda Fit. Which is what I am getting at - the subcompact hatchback just doesn't have significant PMF in the US by the 2020s. Small cars are an opportunity, but it will primarily be CUVs and compact pickups.

ungreased0675 1y ago

Quality also has something to do with it. In the US, small cars generally are the budget option. Lots of plastic trim, cloth seats, limited options. Perhaps the demand was for nice cars, not just small vs big?