5 ms·

It's less common that the president says he will use the shutdown to do rifs though.

by cosmicgadget 1y ago

flanked-evergl 1y ago
[flagged]
kcplate 1y ago
[flagged]
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  It really doesn't matter what the Democrats do here. The president can just defund anything he wants, regardless. The Republicans are running the whole show. They can fix it any time they want. Trying to blame this on the Democrats is ridiculous.
  - kcplate 1y ago
    I don’t think you understand how a “continuing resolution” on funding works
    - cosmicgadget 1y ago
      Care to elaborate?
    - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
      I'm pretty sure I do. Funding is continued at current levels. Then the president just cuts whatever he wants, because the Republican Congress won't force him to obey the laws they pass. Every Republican in Congress is completely spineless, because they are afraid the president might say something bad about them.
      - kcplate 1y ago
        It takes 60 senate votes to pass the resolution. There are not 60 GOP senate votes. Regarding the resolution, the senate minority can control passage or not if they have at least 40 votes. So everything you said above besides “funding is continued at current levels” has nothing to do with why the government was shut down today. It was shut down today because there were not 10 senate democrats that were willing to vote to continue the existing funding even though they chose to continue the funding earlier in the year.
        amanaplanacanal 1y ago
        Sure. They vote to continue, and then the president cut what he wanted out of it anyway. The Senate Republicans could simply get rid of the filibuster and pass it on their own. They won't, because this way they can blame the Democrats. The Democrats have no power if the Republican Congress won't do their job and make the president obey the law. Blaming the Democrats for this mess is complete bullshit.
        kcplate 1y ago
        > The Democrats have no power They have filibuster power and power when a supermajority is required, like this situation. However, if you want the power afforded to the majority you need to win elections. You can certainly blame them for failing to elect legislative majorities and losing control of the presidency. That’s all on them.
        amanaplanacanal 1y ago
        You keep saying a supermajority is required, when it simply isn't. There is nothing in the constitution or law that requires it. It is simply a custom that the Senate has done it in the past. But it has also been a custom that the president faithfully executes the laws that Congress passes, which this administration doesn't. We'll see what happens after the midterms. I don't expect this president to finish his term.
- judahmeek 1y ago
  Because the Democrats are demanding things they think are essential, like for the Trump administration to honor federal funding that Congress allocates.
  - kcplate 1y ago
    They didn’t think they were essential when they voted for the continuation last time.
    - Terr_ 1y ago
      That's facile: Past delays do not justify infinite delays, especially as dwindling resources or external deadlines change over time. For example, "last time" (March) there were still several months to restore healthcare funding before the open-enrollment calendar period for American healthcare plans. Compare: "You didn't think filing your income taxes was important when you got an 6-month extension 5.5 months ago!!!111"
      - kcplate 1y ago
        Who is claiming that it’s an infinite delay?
        judahmeek 1y ago
        > They didn’t think they were essential when they voted for the continuation last time. Your comment here can be interpreted to mean that because they delayed last time, they must delay this time as well. And that seems pretty obvious to me, so your question also seems to be in bad faith.
        kcplate 1y ago
        I am just following Schumer’s own words from last year about passing a clean CR. There is zero way the democrats can defend this action in light of their past opinions and comments on the subject of shutdowns. Either they were wrong then, or they are wrong now. I believe they are wrong now. From link below: “Passing a clean CR this week is important for two main reasons: First, passing the CR, of course, will avert a harmful and unnecessary government shutdown. No reasonable member on either side – Democrat or Republican – wants a government shutdown” https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/majority-leader-schumer-floor-remarks-on-the-senate-moving-forward-to-avoid-a-government-shutdown-and-the-need-for-bipartisan-cooperation https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/maj...
- gilbetron 1y ago
  Blaming the Democratic Party when the other party is in control of all three branches is the true idiocy. The GOP is refusing to govern to show how broken the government is.
  - kcplate 1y ago
    You should probably read up on what it takes to pass a continuing resolution on government funding in the senate. The GOP and some democrats are willing to vote for the CR. It’s the dems that are refusing to govern in this case.
    - vkou 1y ago
      > It’s the dems that are refusing to govern in this case. Congressional republicans are refusing to govern at the macro scale, by failing to enforce the law against the executive. Congress has the power of the purse, but Trump has decided that he can just do whatever the fuck he wants with it, and violate the Hatch act. Why should the dems not use a filibuster against a congress that colludes with a criminal? What other tools do they have to enforce the law?
      - kcplate 1y ago
        “In this case” refers to passing the CR and shutting down the government. The dems are choosing to shut down the government that they willingly funded earlier in the year for their reasons. You may agree with the reasons behind their disagreement with the GOP and the president—but if you are agreeing with their tactics than you are ok with shutting down the government to get them. You and I can disagree on whether or not that is governing. I don’t believe it is, I believe it’s a tantrum that will ultimately backfire on them. The other tools they have is to primary to find good candidates and win elections. They have chosen to rig and skip primaries to front lousy candidates. They could modify their platform to find issues that wont turn off centrist voters and avoid shedding off those voters who are more interested in the 80 part of the 80/20 issues.
        1y ago
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  Sorry are you saying they should give up their minority and simply do whatever the president says?
  - kcplate 1y ago
    Not at all, but they already approved the funding that the government operated under until yesterday. So choosing not to this time which will only give the president cover to blame the democrats for something else and if the shutdown lasts, provides optics that the federal government didn’t really need those non-essential workers anyway. To me, as an independent, it comes off as a childish tantrum by the democrats.
    - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
      And since then Trump has said it doesn't matter what they agree to fund, he can personally choose/change/pull how funding is allocated later. Who would make a 'deal' with someone who has refused to honor past deals?
    - cosmicgadget 1y ago
      The president blames the democrats for anything and everything. Perhaps you've noticed. So this isn't much of a propaganda coup except for the very rare "independent" such as yourself who decides that this one is on them. The democrats are drawing a negotiating line at giving people access to healthcare. Quite the tantrum.
      - kcplate 1y ago
        [flagged]
        cosmicgadget 1y ago
        > And the democrats regularly call the GOP and GOP supporters “Nazis”, “Hitlers”, “Fascists”, “trash”, “deplorables”, etc My dude this is irrelevant to whether or not the dems are handing the president PR ammo. Try to stay on topic. > they want certain people to continue to have access to the ACA packages Whew, glad you added an italicized certain. Was totally confusing when I wrote it. > holding the government funding hostage Art of the deal, baby. Many such cases.

It's less common that the president says he will use the shutdown to do rifs though.

flanked-evergl 1y ago

[flagged]

kcplate 1y ago

[flagged]

amanaplanacanal 1y ago
It really doesn't matter what the Democrats do here. The president can just defund anything he wants, regardless. The Republicans are running the whole show. They can fix it any time they want. Trying to blame this on the Democrats is ridiculous.
- kcplate 1y ago
  I don’t think you understand how a “continuing resolution” on funding works
  - cosmicgadget 1y ago
    Care to elaborate?
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    I'm pretty sure I do. Funding is continued at current levels. Then the president just cuts whatever he wants, because the Republican Congress won't force him to obey the laws they pass. Every Republican in Congress is completely spineless, because they are afraid the president might say something bad about them.
    - kcplate 1y ago
      It takes 60 senate votes to pass the resolution. There are not 60 GOP senate votes. Regarding the resolution, the senate minority can control passage or not if they have at least 40 votes. So everything you said above besides “funding is continued at current levels” has nothing to do with why the government was shut down today. It was shut down today because there were not 10 senate democrats that were willing to vote to continue the existing funding even though they chose to continue the funding earlier in the year.
      - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
        Sure. They vote to continue, and then the president cut what he wanted out of it anyway. The Senate Republicans could simply get rid of the filibuster and pass it on their own. They won't, because this way they can blame the Democrats. The Democrats have no power if the Republican Congress won't do their job and make the president obey the law. Blaming the Democrats for this mess is complete bullshit.
        kcplate 1y ago
        > The Democrats have no power They have filibuster power and power when a supermajority is required, like this situation. However, if you want the power afforded to the majority you need to win elections. You can certainly blame them for failing to elect legislative majorities and losing control of the presidency. That’s all on them.
        amanaplanacanal 1y ago
        You keep saying a supermajority is required, when it simply isn't. There is nothing in the constitution or law that requires it. It is simply a custom that the Senate has done it in the past. But it has also been a custom that the president faithfully executes the laws that Congress passes, which this administration doesn't. We'll see what happens after the midterms. I don't expect this president to finish his term.
judahmeek 1y ago
Because the Democrats are demanding things they think are essential, like for the Trump administration to honor federal funding that Congress allocates.
- kcplate 1y ago
  They didn’t think they were essential when they voted for the continuation last time.
  - Terr_ 1y ago
    That's facile: Past delays do not justify infinite delays, especially as dwindling resources or external deadlines change over time. For example, "last time" (March) there were still several months to restore healthcare funding before the open-enrollment calendar period for American healthcare plans. Compare: "You didn't think filing your income taxes was important when you got an 6-month extension 5.5 months ago!!!111"
    - kcplate 1y ago
      Who is claiming that it’s an infinite delay?
      - judahmeek 1y ago
        > They didn’t think they were essential when they voted for the continuation last time. Your comment here can be interpreted to mean that because they delayed last time, they must delay this time as well. And that seems pretty obvious to me, so your question also seems to be in bad faith.
        kcplate 1y ago
        I am just following Schumer’s own words from last year about passing a clean CR. There is zero way the democrats can defend this action in light of their past opinions and comments on the subject of shutdowns. Either they were wrong then, or they are wrong now. I believe they are wrong now. From link below: “Passing a clean CR this week is important for two main reasons: First, passing the CR, of course, will avert a harmful and unnecessary government shutdown. No reasonable member on either side – Democrat or Republican – wants a government shutdown” https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/majority-leader-schumer-floor-remarks-on-the-senate-moving-forward-to-avoid-a-government-shutdown-and-the-need-for-bipartisan-cooperation https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/maj...
gilbetron 1y ago
Blaming the Democratic Party when the other party is in control of all three branches is the true idiocy. The GOP is refusing to govern to show how broken the government is.
- kcplate 1y ago
  You should probably read up on what it takes to pass a continuing resolution on government funding in the senate. The GOP and some democrats are willing to vote for the CR. It’s the dems that are refusing to govern in this case.
  - vkou 1y ago
    > It’s the dems that are refusing to govern in this case. Congressional republicans are refusing to govern at the macro scale, by failing to enforce the law against the executive. Congress has the power of the purse, but Trump has decided that he can just do whatever the fuck he wants with it, and violate the Hatch act. Why should the dems not use a filibuster against a congress that colludes with a criminal? What other tools do they have to enforce the law?
    - kcplate 1y ago
      “In this case” refers to passing the CR and shutting down the government. The dems are choosing to shut down the government that they willingly funded earlier in the year for their reasons. You may agree with the reasons behind their disagreement with the GOP and the president—but if you are agreeing with their tactics than you are ok with shutting down the government to get them. You and I can disagree on whether or not that is governing. I don’t believe it is, I believe it’s a tantrum that will ultimately backfire on them. The other tools they have is to primary to find good candidates and win elections. They have chosen to rig and skip primaries to front lousy candidates. They could modify their platform to find issues that wont turn off centrist voters and avoid shedding off those voters who are more interested in the 80 part of the 80/20 issues.
      - 1y ago
cosmicgadget 1y ago
Sorry are you saying they should give up their minority and simply do whatever the president says?
- kcplate 1y ago
  Not at all, but they already approved the funding that the government operated under until yesterday. So choosing not to this time which will only give the president cover to blame the democrats for something else and if the shutdown lasts, provides optics that the federal government didn’t really need those non-essential workers anyway. To me, as an independent, it comes off as a childish tantrum by the democrats.
  - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
    And since then Trump has said it doesn't matter what they agree to fund, he can personally choose/change/pull how funding is allocated later. Who would make a 'deal' with someone who has refused to honor past deals?
  - cosmicgadget 1y ago
    The president blames the democrats for anything and everything. Perhaps you've noticed. So this isn't much of a propaganda coup except for the very rare "independent" such as yourself who decides that this one is on them. The democrats are drawing a negotiating line at giving people access to healthcare. Quite the tantrum.
    - kcplate 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - cosmicgadget 1y ago
        > And the democrats regularly call the GOP and GOP supporters “Nazis”, “Hitlers”, “Fascists”, “trash”, “deplorables”, etc My dude this is irrelevant to whether or not the dems are handing the president PR ammo. Try to stay on topic. > they want certain people to continue to have access to the ACA packages Whew, glad you added an italicized certain. Was totally confusing when I wrote it. > holding the government funding hostage Art of the deal, baby. Many such cases.