4 ms·

I'm so sorry that we live in this weird temporary state of humanity where some of us put others in cages over the copying of bytes - one of the most obvious pro

by jMyles 1y ago

I'm so sorry that we live in this weird temporary state of humanity where some of us put others in cages over the copying of bytes - one of the most obvious proclivities of the internet we've invented. Thank you for your work.

Atlas667 1y ago
Yep. They talk about free market but they dont let your computer do one of the most basic things it can do: copying.
tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
Not sure why very nice people on the internet are apologizing for laws that prohibit ripping off other people's work. These laws are very important. The guy clearly understood he was stealing, paid his debt to society, and now has a bunch of knowledge and experience that he can put to use doing something legit and hopefully profitable. I wish him well.
- jMyles 1y ago
  > Not sure why very nice people on the internet are apologizing for laws that prohibit ripping off other people's work. These laws are very important. FYI, I'm a bluegrass musician. And I don't know who you think these laws are important for, but it sure as heck isn't us. The copyright industrial complex is screwing musicians first and foremost. > The guy clearly understood he was stealing, ...then he understood wrong. Stealing is when you take something from someone. In that case, the person from whom you stole no longer has that thing. Copying is not stealing. If you regard copying as stealing, then I encourage you to steal my music. And if you like it, encourage your friends to steal it from you.
  - otterley 1y ago
    Copyright, like property rights in general, is really about control, not about physical things or spaces. Stealing is when you usurp control for yourself over the rightful owner’s objections. If you tell people to take your stuff or use it however they like, they can’t be stealing.
    - card_zero 1y ago
      So assault is stealing now? Trespass, trespassing is stealing too, would you say?
      - otterley 1y ago
        Your response feels needlessly argumentative. Stealing is just a term that relates to an object or a work. Assault relates to bodily autonomy, and trespassing relates to a physical space.
        card_zero 1y ago
        [flagged]
        otterley 1y ago
        [flagged]
        card_zero 1y ago
        That, although it's true that stealing is taking without permission, it must involve taking away, and not merely copying, just as trespass is not stealing somebody's land and assault is not stealing their body.
        otterley 1y ago
        For better or worse, common use of the term “stealing” has expanded over time to apply to copyright infringement. I didn’t make this up on my own. BTW, even trespass can be construed as stealing someone’s land if the perpetrator claims it as his own and tries to then exclude the rightful owner.
        card_zero 1y ago
        Yes! For worse. It's possible to resist this! I think people know it's kind of metaphorical anyway. Hey you stole my idea! You stole my joke! Stealing credit for an idea makes sense, I guess. • That is not mere trespass! I don't know what the name for that is. Land theft? Dispossession?
- nicolas_17 1y ago
  > Not sure why very nice people on the internet are apologizing for laws that prohibit ripping off other people's work. These laws are very important. Remind me, who at Meta and other AI companies went to jail for ripping off millions of books for AI training?
  - tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
    Yes, the rule of law applies to everyone. Why no one appears to be aggressively enforcing their copyright claims against these companies is beyond me.
  - tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
    The laws are enforced unequally, that's obviously a problem. Are you saying because one person got away with breaking the law, we should stop enforcing laws? I don't understand the point you're trying to make
- lukan 1y ago
  To quote the author. "I’m really proud of what I made, yes. I come from a broken home, and the community was a home to me for six years, so I have solace there. It also taught me an endless amount about running a startup, achieving critical mass, and talking and listening to customers. If I were to do it over again, I would have probably made an effort to make money instead of just coast." He was streaming sports events live. "These laws are very important." For what? For the critical service of big commercial sports event? Society would break down, if they loose too much paying customers to teenagers who make a website and a little profit? Now sure, he was making profit, he is and was not a free information idealist. But also not really a criminal in my perspective deserving prison. Definitely not if prison is what you imagine to better someone.
  - drdaeman 1y ago
    > For what? For the critical service of big commercial sports event? Thank you, TIL. For some reason I assumed that those big sport events bring money to hosts. Your question reminded me of this and I went to check and was surprised to find out that it's not true. "Studies conducted to assess the impact on employment, tourism, and growth have been inconclusive at best." - https://www.stern.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/con_043001.pdf https://www.stern.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documen...
- komali2 1y ago
  I remain unconvinced that society would be any worse off if the laws that sent this guy to jail didn't exist. Can you convince me I'm wrong?
- squigz 1y ago
  Because those laws are unfair and imbalanced to favor the powerful and influential.
- drnick1 1y ago
  > Not sure why very nice people on the internet are apologizing for laws that prohibit ripping off other people's work. These laws are very important. I would argue that they are not. In fact, I don't think life without intellectual property laws would be at all that different. Ideally, IP would reward creators and inventors, but in practice, it protects the rents of publishers, Big Pharma and Big Tech instead of fostering innovation. The fact that people, for instance, write free software, and that such software is often superior to commercial, copyrighted software clearly shows that such a model is viable. There would also clearly still be people making music, movies, etc. Another issue is that enforcement of IP laws is very uneven. In many parts of the world, people already freely share copyrighted materials and freely copy drugs. Effectively, all of this is subsidized by American consumers who don't sail the high seas for their software and movies, and spend thousands a month for their prescriptions.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

by jMyles 1y ago

Atlas667 1y ago

Yep. They talk about free market but they dont let your computer do one of the most basic things it can do: copying.

tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago

Not sure why very nice people on the internet are apologizing for laws that prohibit ripping off other people's work. These laws are very important. The guy clearly understood he was stealing, paid his debt to society, and now has a bunch of knowledge and experience that he can put to use doing something legit and hopefully profitable. I wish him well.

jMyles 1y ago
> Not sure why very nice people on the internet are apologizing for laws that prohibit ripping off other people's work. These laws are very important. FYI, I'm a bluegrass musician. And I don't know who you think these laws are important for, but it sure as heck isn't us. The copyright industrial complex is screwing musicians first and foremost. > The guy clearly understood he was stealing, ...then he understood wrong. Stealing is when you take something from someone. In that case, the person from whom you stole no longer has that thing. Copying is not stealing. If you regard copying as stealing, then I encourage you to steal my music. And if you like it, encourage your friends to steal it from you.
- otterley 1y ago
  Copyright, like property rights in general, is really about control, not about physical things or spaces. Stealing is when you usurp control for yourself over the rightful owner’s objections. If you tell people to take your stuff or use it however they like, they can’t be stealing.
  - card_zero 1y ago
    So assault is stealing now? Trespass, trespassing is stealing too, would you say?
    - otterley 1y ago
      Your response feels needlessly argumentative. Stealing is just a term that relates to an object or a work. Assault relates to bodily autonomy, and trespassing relates to a physical space.
      - card_zero 1y ago
        [flagged]
        otterley 1y ago
        [flagged]
        card_zero 1y ago
        That, although it's true that stealing is taking without permission, it must involve taking away, and not merely copying, just as trespass is not stealing somebody's land and assault is not stealing their body.
        otterley 1y ago
        For better or worse, common use of the term “stealing” has expanded over time to apply to copyright infringement. I didn’t make this up on my own. BTW, even trespass can be construed as stealing someone’s land if the perpetrator claims it as his own and tries to then exclude the rightful owner.
        card_zero 1y ago
        Yes! For worse. It's possible to resist this! I think people know it's kind of metaphorical anyway. Hey you stole my idea! You stole my joke! Stealing credit for an idea makes sense, I guess. • That is not mere trespass! I don't know what the name for that is. Land theft? Dispossession?
nicolas_17 1y ago
> Not sure why very nice people on the internet are apologizing for laws that prohibit ripping off other people's work. These laws are very important. Remind me, who at Meta and other AI companies went to jail for ripping off millions of books for AI training?
- tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
  Yes, the rule of law applies to everyone. Why no one appears to be aggressively enforcing their copyright claims against these companies is beyond me.
- tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
  The laws are enforced unequally, that's obviously a problem. Are you saying because one person got away with breaking the law, we should stop enforcing laws? I don't understand the point you're trying to make
lukan 1y ago
To quote the author. "I’m really proud of what I made, yes. I come from a broken home, and the community was a home to me for six years, so I have solace there. It also taught me an endless amount about running a startup, achieving critical mass, and talking and listening to customers. If I were to do it over again, I would have probably made an effort to make money instead of just coast." He was streaming sports events live. "These laws are very important." For what? For the critical service of big commercial sports event? Society would break down, if they loose too much paying customers to teenagers who make a website and a little profit? Now sure, he was making profit, he is and was not a free information idealist. But also not really a criminal in my perspective deserving prison. Definitely not if prison is what you imagine to better someone.
- drdaeman 1y ago
  > For what? For the critical service of big commercial sports event? Thank you, TIL. For some reason I assumed that those big sport events bring money to hosts. Your question reminded me of this and I went to check and was surprised to find out that it's not true. "Studies conducted to assess the impact on employment, tourism, and growth have been inconclusive at best." - https://www.stern.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/con_043001.pdf https://www.stern.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documen...
komali2 1y ago
I remain unconvinced that society would be any worse off if the laws that sent this guy to jail didn't exist. Can you convince me I'm wrong?
squigz 1y ago
Because those laws are unfair and imbalanced to favor the powerful and influential.
drnick1 1y ago
> Not sure why very nice people on the internet are apologizing for laws that prohibit ripping off other people's work. These laws are very important. I would argue that they are not. In fact, I don't think life without intellectual property laws would be at all that different. Ideally, IP would reward creators and inventors, but in practice, it protects the rents of publishers, Big Pharma and Big Tech instead of fostering innovation. The fact that people, for instance, write free software, and that such software is often superior to commercial, copyrighted software clearly shows that such a model is viable. There would also clearly still be people making music, movies, etc. Another issue is that enforcement of IP laws is very uneven. In many parts of the world, people already freely share copyrighted materials and freely copy drugs. Effectively, all of this is subsidized by American consumers who don't sail the high seas for their software and movies, and spend thousands a month for their prescriptions.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]