5 ms·

This will turn into Kathy Sierra part 2.

by jwesley 18y ago

blasdel 18y ago
I really don't think so. While Arrington is even more insufferable than Sierra, he is an expert in the mechanics of trolling. He knows what he's doing: he's judged that the hype-value of publicising his detractors outweighs the foolishness of feeding the trolls, and I think he's probably right. He's not going to get taken hook, line, and sinker like Kathy Sierra did. She managed to prove her attackers correct (at least regarding her incompetence) in her reaction to them. That is the real lesson of the Kathy Sierra debacle, and why it is one of the most epic trolls of all time.
- BigZaphod 18y ago
  Is there a reliable summary somewhere of what all happened in the Kathy Sierra incident? I mostly ignored it at the time, but now I'm curious as to how that all went down and what went wrong.
  - blasdel 18y ago
    Not really, every party is an unreliable narrator! This is undoubtedly a troll and goes way too far, but the base of his criticisms ring true: http://www.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Full-Disclosure/2007-03/msg00507.html http://www.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Full-Disclosure/2007-... "Kathy hollers like a stuck pig as she wonders why the trolls escalated to magnitudes which she could no longer control. The answer is obvious: she fought the LOL. The LOL won. She flew off the handle trying to silence criticism of her books, and this is what she got."
    - TweedHeads 18y ago
      "She fought the LOL. The LOL won" I like it, good for a snorg tee
    - ahoyhere 18y ago
      His criticism rings true? He claims that she came out of nowhere because she was a prostitute at O'Reilly conferences. A literal prostitute, not a metaphorical one. That's beyond ridiculous. How can you brush off something that bizarro and believe the rest of his rant has merit?
      - blasdel 18y ago
        For starters, the literal and metaphorical are not mutually exclusive. He literally (in the text) said she "got the train run on her", and in the context of an outrageous troll it's a metaphor for her vapid self-promotion and the co-dependent nature of the 'tech' conference presenter scene. She's supposedly a programmer, but she made a career out of giving the same tacky clipart presentations about generic PR & Marketing bullshit over and over. She fit right into the circle-jerk with Scoble et. al.. Some people found her constant paid presence at the conferences they went to obnoxious and wished she'd STFU, so they started griefing her. She was egotistical enough to think that anyone cared enough about hating her to make those "death threats" remotely meaningful, and she did exactly what they wanted.
        ahoyhere 18y ago
        My background: I have spoken at OSCON, SXSW, Webstock, RailsConf, and more -- venues shared with Kathy Sierra -- and I have been an OSCON organizer, and I was behind the creation of the new "People" track. I am a programmer, and a usability expert. Allow me to respond to your points: A) she doesn't pretend to speak as a programmer B) her stuff is not generic PR & marketing, it's about user engagement and results in concrete recommendations about the business of building software, AND C) she cites psychological research, not marketing handbooks (she's pretty damn current too, the lady does her homework) D) she doesn't name drop or publicity whore, podcast, screencast, chum up to people for photos or videos, or write product reviews (unlike Scobl E) she actually made her career with the invention of the redonkulously succcessful Head First book series, and that is why she is paid to speak -- tech books sell like ass... except hers (and Missing Manual, another O'Reilly line) F) Her talks are a bit repetitive, but I wasn't aware that giving the same talk (slightly updated) a few different times was reason for death threats to be acceptable. Would I have reacted in the same manner? No, but then again, I'm not Kathy Sierra, I am a 24-year-old girl who grew up online, and don't even have a hamster to worry about much less a teenaged daughter. I simply cannot fathom the ridiculousness of accusing Kathy of "vapid self-promotion" (totally unfounded) and basically suggesting that she was asking for it. It has "socially disabled adolescent boy" written all over it. Just like the original "griefing" and threats.
  - chris11 18y ago
    Basically a blog post was written, http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/02/04/more-on-higher-purpose/ http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/02/04/more-on-higher-purpose... and there was a pretty big argument started in the comment section. Kathy compared some commenters as mean kids. Chris Locke started a website called mean kids in response to this to attack people. Kathy received death threats. She skips a conference, and the police get involved. Soon the media picks up on the story. part1:http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-1-dissecting-the-creation-of-the-kathy-sierra-blog-storm-4/ http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-1-dissecti... part2:http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-2-big-bad-bob-and-the-lull-before-the-kathy-sierra-blog-storm/ http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-2-big-bad-... part3:http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-3-who-are-the-real-culprits-in-the-kathy-sierra-saga/ http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-3-who-are-... people involved:http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2007/04/kathysierra http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2007/04/kathysierra

This will turn into Kathy Sierra part 2.

by jwesley 18y ago

This will turn into Kathy Sierra part 2.

I really don't think so. While Arrington is even more insufferable than Sierra, he is an expert in the mechanics of trolling. He knows what he's doing: he's judged that the hype-value of publicising his detractors outweighs the foolishness of feeding the trolls, and I think he's probably right. He's not going to get taken hook, line, and sinker like Kathy Sierra did. She managed to prove her attackers correct (at least regarding her incompetence) in her reaction to them. That is the real lesson of the Kathy Sierra debacle, and why it is one of the most epic trolls of all time.

BigZaphod 18y ago
Is there a reliable summary somewhere of what all happened in the Kathy Sierra incident? I mostly ignored it at the time, but now I'm curious as to how that all went down and what went wrong.
- blasdel 18y ago
  Not really, every party is an unreliable narrator! This is undoubtedly a troll and goes way too far, but the base of his criticisms ring true: http://www.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Full-Disclosure/2007-03/msg00507.html http://www.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Full-Disclosure/2007-... "Kathy hollers like a stuck pig as she wonders why the trolls escalated to magnitudes which she could no longer control. The answer is obvious: she fought the LOL. The LOL won. She flew off the handle trying to silence criticism of her books, and this is what she got."
  - TweedHeads 18y ago
    "She fought the LOL. The LOL won" I like it, good for a snorg tee
  - ahoyhere 18y ago
    His criticism rings true? He claims that she came out of nowhere because she was a prostitute at O'Reilly conferences. A literal prostitute, not a metaphorical one. That's beyond ridiculous. How can you brush off something that bizarro and believe the rest of his rant has merit?
    - blasdel 18y ago
      For starters, the literal and metaphorical are not mutually exclusive. He literally (in the text) said she "got the train run on her", and in the context of an outrageous troll it's a metaphor for her vapid self-promotion and the co-dependent nature of the 'tech' conference presenter scene. She's supposedly a programmer, but she made a career out of giving the same tacky clipart presentations about generic PR & Marketing bullshit over and over. She fit right into the circle-jerk with Scoble et. al.. Some people found her constant paid presence at the conferences they went to obnoxious and wished she'd STFU, so they started griefing her. She was egotistical enough to think that anyone cared enough about hating her to make those "death threats" remotely meaningful, and she did exactly what they wanted.
      - ahoyhere 18y ago
        My background: I have spoken at OSCON, SXSW, Webstock, RailsConf, and more -- venues shared with Kathy Sierra -- and I have been an OSCON organizer, and I was behind the creation of the new "People" track. I am a programmer, and a usability expert. Allow me to respond to your points: A) she doesn't pretend to speak as a programmer B) her stuff is not generic PR & marketing, it's about user engagement and results in concrete recommendations about the business of building software, AND C) she cites psychological research, not marketing handbooks (she's pretty damn current too, the lady does her homework) D) she doesn't name drop or publicity whore, podcast, screencast, chum up to people for photos or videos, or write product reviews (unlike Scobl E) she actually made her career with the invention of the redonkulously succcessful Head First book series, and that is why she is paid to speak -- tech books sell like ass... except hers (and Missing Manual, another O'Reilly line) F) Her talks are a bit repetitive, but I wasn't aware that giving the same talk (slightly updated) a few different times was reason for death threats to be acceptable. Would I have reacted in the same manner? No, but then again, I'm not Kathy Sierra, I am a 24-year-old girl who grew up online, and don't even have a hamster to worry about much less a teenaged daughter. I simply cannot fathom the ridiculousness of accusing Kathy of "vapid self-promotion" (totally unfounded) and basically suggesting that she was asking for it. It has "socially disabled adolescent boy" written all over it. Just like the original "griefing" and threats.
- chris11 18y ago
  Basically a blog post was written, http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/02/04/more-on-higher-purpose/ http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/02/04/more-on-higher-purpose... and there was a pretty big argument started in the comment section. Kathy compared some commenters as mean kids. Chris Locke started a website called mean kids in response to this to attack people. Kathy received death threats. She skips a conference, and the police get involved. Soon the media picks up on the story. part1:http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-1-dissecting-the-creation-of-the-kathy-sierra-blog-storm-4/ http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-1-dissecti... part2:http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-2-big-bad-bob-and-the-lull-before-the-kathy-sierra-blog-storm/ http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-2-big-bad-... part3:http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-3-who-are-the-real-culprits-in-the-kathy-sierra-saga/ http://www.onebyonemedia.com/the-sierra-saga-part-3-who-are-... people involved:http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2007/04/kathysierra http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2007/04/kathysierra