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This was my reaction when I saw Meta’s “Vibes” app. Who wants to browse a stream of exclusively AI generated videos? Obviously Meta wants that because it’s a lo

This was my reaction when I saw Meta’s “Vibes” app. Who wants to browse a stream of exclusively AI generated videos? Obviously Meta wants that because it’s a lot cheaper than actually paying real people to make content… but it’s slop.

bonoboTP 1y ago
This is not the final target. It's video generation now, but that's just a stepping stone. The real thing is that learning a generator is also learning a prior over videos, and hence over how the world works. The real application of this will be word models, vision-language action models, spatial AI and robotics. Basically a kind of learned simulator in which to plan and imagine possible futures, possible actions and affordances etc. Video models could become a spatial reasoning platform too. A recent paper by deepmind (using veo3) showed that video models can perform many high level vision tasks out of the box. Don't think it's going to end here at some slop feed.
- afavour 1y ago
  Sure. But why do I, as a user, want to download Vibes today?
- gyomu 1y ago
  > This is not the final target The final target of these "world models" on a 20 year horizon is entirely unmanned factories taking over the economy, and swarm of drones and robots fighting wars and policing citizens. This is why hundreds of billions are poured into these things, cute Ghibli style videos and vacuum robots wouldn't be worth this much money otherwise.
  - oceanplexian 1y ago
    What’s so romantic about working in factories? Automation and robotics will accelerate the economy the same way information technology did, and humans will work on better problems than performing repeated tasks on an assembly line or flipping burgers. There are arguably more jobs today as a result of computers than there were before they were invented. So why is the assumption that AI will magically delete all jobs while discounting the fact that it will create careers we haven’t even thought of?
    - ipaddr 1y ago
      The hope is that we have no employment and we moved into a different form of society where AI takes care of us and allows us to focus on more spiritual meaningful things. For now AI is deleting many of the jobs the computer created. The reality is we will more likely end up in a society where wealth/power at the very top will grow and the masses will be controlled by AI.
      - listenallyall 1y ago
        more than controlled, enslaved - 24/7 location monitoring (but also no need to ever go anywhere, as everything will be delivered), "perfect" nutrition (fed via IV or tasteless shakes), only "intelligent" conversation taking place between you and an AI agent (even if initially resistant, AI will successfully convince you to drop ties to relatives, friends, that is if ever allowed to make friends), all news delivered via AI-curated channels but is meaningless anyway since AI can create fake video of any leader or important person committing crimes, lying, etc, also all evidence of YOU committing a crime, or just embarrassing stuff like having a sex drive will be recorded and used as blackmail. A "job" to keep you occupied much of the day but your output is never actually needed and discarded by your AI agent "boss". How is this not entirely obvious to everyone that this is the future? Could be 20, 50, 100 years, but coming for sure.
    - FrancisMoodie 1y ago
      > So why is the assumption that AI will magically delete all jobs while discounting the fact that it will create careers we haven’t even thought of? I think that in a vacuum you could reasonably believe that this might be the case but I feel like it isn't just about the technology these days, it's about the hunger c-suites and tech companies have for replacing workforce with ai and/or automation. It's quite clear that layoffs and mass adoption of AI/automation raises shareholder value so there is no incentive to create new jobs. Will there be an organic shift away from Tech/IT/Computers into new fields? It might, but I think it's a bit naive to think that this will be proportionate to the careers AI will make redundant when there is such a big focus on eliminating as much jobs as possible in lieu of AI.
    - 1y ago
- mallowdram 1y ago
  There are no world models in there, it's trained on arbitrary images/sequences. There are no world models in us, we learn from only specifics in topological space, stitched together in sharp wave ripples. Everything is from detached memories working through optic flow. That's not a world model, it's not even a model. It's an analog. This whole world model thing is another branding phase after language models failed to deliver. After world models it will be neuro symbolic, then RL will sweep in like a final boss fight, and then... it still won't work. Notice anything about these names? They're walking pneumonia paradoxes.
  - bonoboTP 1y ago
    The point is that video generation is not the goal in itself. Just like classifying photos as cat vs dog wasn't the goal in 2013. I know that Sora 2 is not a world model. But what's coming is: Vision-language-action models and planning, spatial AI (SLAM with semantics and 3D reconstruction with interactability and affordance detection). Video diffusion models, photo-to-gaussian-splats, video-to-3D (e.g. from Hunyuan), the whole DUSt3R/VGGT line of works, V-JEPA 2 etc. Or if you want product names, Gemini Robotics 1.5, Genie 3, etc. The field is progressing incredibly fast. Humanoid robots are progressing fast. Robotic hands with haptic sensors are more dexterous than ever. It's starting to work. We are only seeing the first glimpses of course.
    - debesyla 1y ago
      I wonder what is this fascination with human shaped robots, if spider shaped robots could be more dexterous and productive. (Unless it's sci-fi and porn that is mainly pushing for human shaped robots.)
      - bonoboTP 1y ago
        The built environment fits the human form factor well. Imitation learning and intuitive teleoperation is also easier. But it won't be the only form factor. The quadruped form (like Spot) is also popular, as well as drones etc.
    - 1y ago
- mscbuck 1y ago
  I think generally I agree with you that this is a stepping stone towards bigger/potentially more important things......but that doesn't change the fact that they've packaged it to consumers as something that seems like it has, at best, close to zero utility and at worst has incredible downsides. I'm not sure why releasing this to consumers helps achieve those goals.
  - bonoboTP 1y ago
    Ad money to recoup the huge investments into datacenters that will do the training of the better models that do the things I mentioned. Meta is working hard on AR, glasses (project Aria), egocentric modeling and spatial AI. At some point they may also pull out the Metaverse idea too, they are still working on avatars too, it's just currently not so popularly hyped.
Razengan 1y ago
Oh my god.. "Meta".. "Vibes".. Facebook has become the cringe how-do-you-do-fellow-kids uncle that Microsoft was since the 1990s

bonoboTP 1y ago

This is not the final target. It's video generation now, but that's just a stepping stone. The real thing is that learning a generator is also learning a prior over videos, and hence over how the world works. The real application of this will be word models, vision-language action models, spatial AI and robotics. Basically a kind of learned simulator in which to plan and imagine possible futures, possible actions and affordances etc. Video models could become a spatial reasoning platform too. A recent paper by deepmind (using veo3) showed that video models can perform many high level vision tasks out of the box. Don't think it's going to end here at some slop feed.

afavour 1y ago
Sure. But why do I, as a user, want to download Vibes today?
gyomu 1y ago
> This is not the final target The final target of these "world models" on a 20 year horizon is entirely unmanned factories taking over the economy, and swarm of drones and robots fighting wars and policing citizens. This is why hundreds of billions are poured into these things, cute Ghibli style videos and vacuum robots wouldn't be worth this much money otherwise.
- oceanplexian 1y ago
  What’s so romantic about working in factories? Automation and robotics will accelerate the economy the same way information technology did, and humans will work on better problems than performing repeated tasks on an assembly line or flipping burgers. There are arguably more jobs today as a result of computers than there were before they were invented. So why is the assumption that AI will magically delete all jobs while discounting the fact that it will create careers we haven’t even thought of?
  - ipaddr 1y ago
    The hope is that we have no employment and we moved into a different form of society where AI takes care of us and allows us to focus on more spiritual meaningful things. For now AI is deleting many of the jobs the computer created. The reality is we will more likely end up in a society where wealth/power at the very top will grow and the masses will be controlled by AI.
    - listenallyall 1y ago
      more than controlled, enslaved - 24/7 location monitoring (but also no need to ever go anywhere, as everything will be delivered), "perfect" nutrition (fed via IV or tasteless shakes), only "intelligent" conversation taking place between you and an AI agent (even if initially resistant, AI will successfully convince you to drop ties to relatives, friends, that is if ever allowed to make friends), all news delivered via AI-curated channels but is meaningless anyway since AI can create fake video of any leader or important person committing crimes, lying, etc, also all evidence of YOU committing a crime, or just embarrassing stuff like having a sex drive will be recorded and used as blackmail. A "job" to keep you occupied much of the day but your output is never actually needed and discarded by your AI agent "boss". How is this not entirely obvious to everyone that this is the future? Could be 20, 50, 100 years, but coming for sure.
  - FrancisMoodie 1y ago
    > So why is the assumption that AI will magically delete all jobs while discounting the fact that it will create careers we haven’t even thought of? I think that in a vacuum you could reasonably believe that this might be the case but I feel like it isn't just about the technology these days, it's about the hunger c-suites and tech companies have for replacing workforce with ai and/or automation. It's quite clear that layoffs and mass adoption of AI/automation raises shareholder value so there is no incentive to create new jobs. Will there be an organic shift away from Tech/IT/Computers into new fields? It might, but I think it's a bit naive to think that this will be proportionate to the careers AI will make redundant when there is such a big focus on eliminating as much jobs as possible in lieu of AI.
  - 1y ago
mallowdram 1y ago
There are no world models in there, it's trained on arbitrary images/sequences. There are no world models in us, we learn from only specifics in topological space, stitched together in sharp wave ripples. Everything is from detached memories working through optic flow. That's not a world model, it's not even a model. It's an analog. This whole world model thing is another branding phase after language models failed to deliver. After world models it will be neuro symbolic, then RL will sweep in like a final boss fight, and then... it still won't work. Notice anything about these names? They're walking pneumonia paradoxes.
- bonoboTP 1y ago
  The point is that video generation is not the goal in itself. Just like classifying photos as cat vs dog wasn't the goal in 2013. I know that Sora 2 is not a world model. But what's coming is: Vision-language-action models and planning, spatial AI (SLAM with semantics and 3D reconstruction with interactability and affordance detection). Video diffusion models, photo-to-gaussian-splats, video-to-3D (e.g. from Hunyuan), the whole DUSt3R/VGGT line of works, V-JEPA 2 etc. Or if you want product names, Gemini Robotics 1.5, Genie 3, etc. The field is progressing incredibly fast. Humanoid robots are progressing fast. Robotic hands with haptic sensors are more dexterous than ever. It's starting to work. We are only seeing the first glimpses of course.
  - debesyla 1y ago
    I wonder what is this fascination with human shaped robots, if spider shaped robots could be more dexterous and productive. (Unless it's sci-fi and porn that is mainly pushing for human shaped robots.)
    - bonoboTP 1y ago
      The built environment fits the human form factor well. Imitation learning and intuitive teleoperation is also easier. But it won't be the only form factor. The quadruped form (like Spot) is also popular, as well as drones etc.
  - 1y ago
mscbuck 1y ago
I think generally I agree with you that this is a stepping stone towards bigger/potentially more important things......but that doesn't change the fact that they've packaged it to consumers as something that seems like it has, at best, close to zero utility and at worst has incredible downsides. I'm not sure why releasing this to consumers helps achieve those goals.
- bonoboTP 1y ago
  Ad money to recoup the huge investments into datacenters that will do the training of the better models that do the things I mentioned. Meta is working hard on AR, glasses (project Aria), egocentric modeling and spatial AI. At some point they may also pull out the Metaverse idea too, they are still working on avatars too, it's just currently not so popularly hyped.

Razengan 1y ago

Oh my god.. "Meta".. "Vibes".. Facebook has become the cringe how-do-you-do-fellow-kids uncle that Microsoft was since the 1990s