4 ms·

Spaces such as online open-source communities? This is nonsensical, listen to yourself. Your anti-human bias shows and it's actually disturbing. What spaces are

Spaces such as online open-source communities? This is nonsensical, listen to yourself. Your anti-human bias shows and it's actually disturbing. What spaces are you even talking about and why do you think people that look, act, talk and think exactly like their members should be barred from them? > trans ideological cause Got it, demanding human rights apply to trans people is now an "ideological stance". The American Overton window is so far right, it's crazy people can hold such views and think they're being reasonable.

wastle 1y ago
No, typically this issue is focused around spaces like female-only refuges and safe spaces, locker rooms and changing rooms, prisons, sports competitions, and so on. The divisive point being whether males who say they are female should be refused or granted access. That you have chosen to characterise this with wording like "anti-human bias" and "demanding human rights apply" further illustrates my point.
- kelnos 1y ago
  No, that's not the typical focus of the issue, and repeating that over and over won't make it so.
  - wastle 1y ago
    What do you see it as? In the UK, where I am from, the counter to the trans ideological position tends to be from a feminist-influenced perspective, emphasising women's sex-based rights.
    - thrance 1y ago
      Notice how all these so-called TERFs ally themselves with the most anti-feminist crowd, and finally realize it has absolutely nothing to do with feminism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Political_alliances_with_conservatives_and_the_far_right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Polit...
      - u_sama 1y ago
        Most historical feminists would be labelled TERFs today, just like the most liberal 19th century politicians would be seen as conservative. TERFS are still feminists. Communists also allied themselves with fascists during the inter-war period yet you can still consider them as separate.
        thrance 1y ago
        > Most historical feminists would be labelled TERFs today, just like the most liberal 19th century politicians would be seen as conservative. Who cares? > TERFS are still feminists. You can't be a feminist and side with the people standing against legal abortions, lesbian marriage, gender equality, equal opportunity, equal pay, equal access to education, etc. Simple as that. The conservative idea of a woman is one of a servile housewife who never leaves the house. No matter how you frame it, these people are anti-feminist, and so are the TERFs that consistently side with them. > Communists also allied themselves with fascists during the inter-war period yet you can still consider them as separate. What the hell are you going on about? I would consider the Soviets fascists, but how is that relevant in any way to TERFs not being feminists?
        wastle 1y ago
        Hitler was a vegetarian. This does not imply that vegetarians in general are siding with Nazis. To assert that would be an error of logic. You're making a similarly incorrect fallacy of association between TERFs and anti-feminist conservatives.
        thrance 1y ago
        If vegetarians did side with Hitler, then yeah, I would have an issue with them as a group. But that's completely different, can't you see? TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates, a lot of whom hold anti-feminist views. That's the issue. Again, and please read it this time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Political_alliances_with_conservatives_and_the_far_right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Polit...

wastle 1y ago

No, typically this issue is focused around spaces like female-only refuges and safe spaces, locker rooms and changing rooms, prisons, sports competitions, and so on. The divisive point being whether males who say they are female should be refused or granted access. That you have chosen to characterise this with wording like "anti-human bias" and "demanding human rights apply" further illustrates my point.

kelnos 1y ago
No, that's not the typical focus of the issue, and repeating that over and over won't make it so.
- wastle 1y ago
  What do you see it as? In the UK, where I am from, the counter to the trans ideological position tends to be from a feminist-influenced perspective, emphasising women's sex-based rights.
  - thrance 1y ago
    Notice how all these so-called TERFs ally themselves with the most anti-feminist crowd, and finally realize it has absolutely nothing to do with feminism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Political_alliances_with_conservatives_and_the_far_right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Polit...
    - u_sama 1y ago
      Most historical feminists would be labelled TERFs today, just like the most liberal 19th century politicians would be seen as conservative. TERFS are still feminists. Communists also allied themselves with fascists during the inter-war period yet you can still consider them as separate.
      - thrance 1y ago
        > Most historical feminists would be labelled TERFs today, just like the most liberal 19th century politicians would be seen as conservative. Who cares? > TERFS are still feminists. You can't be a feminist and side with the people standing against legal abortions, lesbian marriage, gender equality, equal opportunity, equal pay, equal access to education, etc. Simple as that. The conservative idea of a woman is one of a servile housewife who never leaves the house. No matter how you frame it, these people are anti-feminist, and so are the TERFs that consistently side with them. > Communists also allied themselves with fascists during the inter-war period yet you can still consider them as separate. What the hell are you going on about? I would consider the Soviets fascists, but how is that relevant in any way to TERFs not being feminists?
        wastle 1y ago
        Hitler was a vegetarian. This does not imply that vegetarians in general are siding with Nazis. To assert that would be an error of logic. You're making a similarly incorrect fallacy of association between TERFs and anti-feminist conservatives.
        thrance 1y ago
        If vegetarians did side with Hitler, then yeah, I would have an issue with them as a group. But that's completely different, can't you see? TERFs are consistently found to be supporting right-wing candidates, a lot of whom hold anti-feminist views. That's the issue. Again, and please read it this time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Political_alliances_with_conservatives_and_the_far_right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism#Polit...