2 ms·

Does "inflammation" refer to a general systemic thing? Or does this refer to something specific such as tendonitis or inflammation due to injury?

gwbas1c 1y ago
Upvoted because I was going to ask the same thing: What is "inflammation" in this context?
- pizzathyme 1y ago
  hs-CRP is the specific biomarker
brandonb 1y ago
Chronic inflammation (a general systemic thing) is the thing we're mostly concerned about for heart health. The hs-CRP metric itself will pick up both acute inflammation (if you get sick) and chronic inflammation.
FollowingTheDao 1y ago
CRP is a protein produced by the liver in response to inflammation. Elevated CRP levels indicate inflammation in the bodY. High levels of CRP are associated with high levels of oxidative stress. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15585208/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15585208/ Inflammation is a synonym for high levels of oxidative stress. Keep your oxidative stress low and you will not get heart disease.
- SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
  > Keep your oxidative stress low and you will not get heart disease. I think we should always be careful when we speak in absolutes. The conclusion from the article: > This result suggests that oxidative stress may be a determinant of [C-reactive protein] levels and promote pro-atherosclerotic inflammatory processes at the earliest stages of [coronary heart disease] development. I'm not saying the result is wrong, but I am saying "if you A you will not get B" is over-promising.
- autoexec 1y ago
  Easier said than done. Even microplastics have been liked to oxidative stress and inflammation.
- drdrey 1y ago
  > Keep your oxidative stress low and you will not get heart disease. if you take this advice literally, you should stop exercising
  - FollowingTheDao 1y ago
    Yes, you are correct. Nothing wrong with walking, helps keep weight low and fat cells are a huge source of oxidative stress. Better to eat low calorie, high nutrient dense foods.
jawilson2 1y ago
I have always read it as systemic. Which is why low carb diets seem to do wonders for a lot of people's cardiovascular systems, somewhat paradoxically. If you go really low carb (<20g / day), the first week or two you can lose a ton of weight, but much of it is water, which detractors point to as "well, you're not losing fat!" But, imagine what this does for inflammation. That is 7 pounds of fluid you are no longer carrying and pumping against. It's basically a gallon. The first round of keto I did, I lost a ton of weight the first month (~20 lbs), and my blood pressure plummeted to the point where I was dizzy all the time, and I had to supplement with salt and magnesium. I remember a study I read probably 15 years ago where they looked at cross-sections of arteries before and after starting a ketogenic diet, and there was significant reduction in inflammation after just a few weeks, IIRC. I just tried finding it on pubmed, but can't find the right incantation of search terms to dredge it up. There are countless studies like this. I've been mostly on a keto diet since 2014, and it is probably the most important health choice I've ever made. At the time I worked in Neurology at a Children's hospital, and a keto diet is one of the treatment options for epilepsy. I talked with the clinical dietician at the time, and asked if these kids were having heart attacks in their 20s. On the contrary, much of the department was on the diet, or a low glycemic diet, as was much of the oncology dept. Obviously, this is an N of 1, and I'm not an MD, but every single aspect of my physiological and mental health has improved over the last 10+ years.
- nelox 1y ago
  Could it be either of these studies? “Dietary Intervention to Reverse Carotid Atherosclerosis” (Circulation, 2010) — participants were randomized to low-fat, Mediterranean, or low-carbohydrate diets; carotid arteries were imaged with 3-D ultrasound cross-sections at baseline and follow-up. After 2 years there was a ~5% regression in carotid vessel-wall volume, with similar regression across all diets (i.e., including the low-carb arm). [1] Volek et al., 2009 (Metabolism) — 12-week very-low-carb vs low-fat trial; ultrasound of the brachial artery showed improved post-prandial flow-mediated dilation (a marker of endothelial function/inflammation) in the low-carb group. Not carotid 3-D slices, but still vascular imaging with before/after comparisons. [2] [1] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.109.879254 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.1... [2] https://lowcarbaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Volek-et-al-Effects-of-Dietary-Carbohydrate-Restriction-Versus-Low-fat-Diet-on-Flow-mediated-Dilation.pdf https://lowcarbaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Volek-e...
alphazard 1y ago
This is a good question. Inflammation broadly refers to destructive immune activity (or sometimes any immune activity). If you get a cut, immune cells show up, they kill germs, sometimes they kill somatic cells too. Different cells show up to heal and close the wound. That's all immune activity. When you need it, it's a net good, but you don't want any of that going on when you don't need it. Increasingly people seem to have more immune activity than they should and it causes cumulative low grade damage. That's the "systemic inflammation" that you've probably heard about. hs-CRP (high sensitivity C-reactive protein) is a test which seems to be a good biomarker for systemic inflammation, although CRP is just one chemical involved in immune activity. This article is advocating for using that particular biomarker (related to systemic inflammation) to predict heart disease.
- calebm 1y ago
  Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if the immune activity is not the problem, but some kind of destructive process that is triggering the immune response. A continuous onslaught of destruction tends to make things break down faster.
- analog31 1y ago
  Other than a biomarker, does it produce symptoms?
  - alphazard 1y ago
    The C reactive protein itself doesn't cause symptoms on its own. It's produced by the liver in response to signals from immune cells. It actually binds to bacteria in circulation, so if anything it helps. As a data point, it can vary by >1000x during the course of a disease, and won't be something that people feel or complain about separate from the other symptoms. The underlying cause of the inflammation usually does produce other symptoms though. Think fatigue, joints, stuff like that. It's one of the many biomarkers that can alert people to change their lifestyle and diet. When they do, they usually feel much better and there will be a reduction in inflammatory markers coincidental with them feeling better.

gwbas1c 1y ago

Upvoted because I was going to ask the same thing: What is "inflammation" in this context?

pizzathyme 1y ago
hs-CRP is the specific biomarker

brandonb 1y ago

Chronic inflammation (a general systemic thing) is the thing we're mostly concerned about for heart health. The hs-CRP metric itself will pick up both acute inflammation (if you get sick) and chronic inflammation.

FollowingTheDao 1y ago

CRP is a protein produced by the liver in response to inflammation. Elevated CRP levels indicate inflammation in the bodY. High levels of CRP are associated with high levels of oxidative stress. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15585208/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15585208/ Inflammation is a synonym for high levels of oxidative stress. Keep your oxidative stress low and you will not get heart disease.

SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
> Keep your oxidative stress low and you will not get heart disease. I think we should always be careful when we speak in absolutes. The conclusion from the article: > This result suggests that oxidative stress may be a determinant of [C-reactive protein] levels and promote pro-atherosclerotic inflammatory processes at the earliest stages of [coronary heart disease] development. I'm not saying the result is wrong, but I am saying "if you A you will not get B" is over-promising.
autoexec 1y ago
Easier said than done. Even microplastics have been liked to oxidative stress and inflammation.
drdrey 1y ago
> Keep your oxidative stress low and you will not get heart disease. if you take this advice literally, you should stop exercising
- FollowingTheDao 1y ago
  Yes, you are correct. Nothing wrong with walking, helps keep weight low and fat cells are a huge source of oxidative stress. Better to eat low calorie, high nutrient dense foods.

jawilson2 1y ago

I have always read it as systemic. Which is why low carb diets seem to do wonders for a lot of people's cardiovascular systems, somewhat paradoxically. If you go really low carb (<20g / day), the first week or two you can lose a ton of weight, but much of it is water, which detractors point to as "well, you're not losing fat!" But, imagine what this does for inflammation. That is 7 pounds of fluid you are no longer carrying and pumping against. It's basically a gallon. The first round of keto I did, I lost a ton of weight the first month (~20 lbs), and my blood pressure plummeted to the point where I was dizzy all the time, and I had to supplement with salt and magnesium. I remember a study I read probably 15 years ago where they looked at cross-sections of arteries before and after starting a ketogenic diet, and there was significant reduction in inflammation after just a few weeks, IIRC. I just tried finding it on pubmed, but can't find the right incantation of search terms to dredge it up. There are countless studies like this. I've been mostly on a keto diet since 2014, and it is probably the most important health choice I've ever made. At the time I worked in Neurology at a Children's hospital, and a keto diet is one of the treatment options for epilepsy. I talked with the clinical dietician at the time, and asked if these kids were having heart attacks in their 20s. On the contrary, much of the department was on the diet, or a low glycemic diet, as was much of the oncology dept. Obviously, this is an N of 1, and I'm not an MD, but every single aspect of my physiological and mental health has improved over the last 10+ years.

nelox 1y ago
Could it be either of these studies? “Dietary Intervention to Reverse Carotid Atherosclerosis” (Circulation, 2010) — participants were randomized to low-fat, Mediterranean, or low-carbohydrate diets; carotid arteries were imaged with 3-D ultrasound cross-sections at baseline and follow-up. After 2 years there was a ~5% regression in carotid vessel-wall volume, with similar regression across all diets (i.e., including the low-carb arm). [1] Volek et al., 2009 (Metabolism) — 12-week very-low-carb vs low-fat trial; ultrasound of the brachial artery showed improved post-prandial flow-mediated dilation (a marker of endothelial function/inflammation) in the low-carb group. Not carotid 3-D slices, but still vascular imaging with before/after comparisons. [2] [1] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.109.879254 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.1... [2] https://lowcarbaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Volek-et-al-Effects-of-Dietary-Carbohydrate-Restriction-Versus-Low-fat-Diet-on-Flow-mediated-Dilation.pdf https://lowcarbaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Volek-e...

alphazard 1y ago

This is a good question. Inflammation broadly refers to destructive immune activity (or sometimes any immune activity). If you get a cut, immune cells show up, they kill germs, sometimes they kill somatic cells too. Different cells show up to heal and close the wound. That's all immune activity. When you need it, it's a net good, but you don't want any of that going on when you don't need it. Increasingly people seem to have more immune activity than they should and it causes cumulative low grade damage. That's the "systemic inflammation" that you've probably heard about. hs-CRP (high sensitivity C-reactive protein) is a test which seems to be a good biomarker for systemic inflammation, although CRP is just one chemical involved in immune activity. This article is advocating for using that particular biomarker (related to systemic inflammation) to predict heart disease.

calebm 1y ago
Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if the immune activity is not the problem, but some kind of destructive process that is triggering the immune response. A continuous onslaught of destruction tends to make things break down faster.
analog31 1y ago
Other than a biomarker, does it produce symptoms?
- alphazard 1y ago
  The C reactive protein itself doesn't cause symptoms on its own. It's produced by the liver in response to signals from immune cells. It actually binds to bacteria in circulation, so if anything it helps. As a data point, it can vary by >1000x during the course of a disease, and won't be something that people feel or complain about separate from the other symptoms. The underlying cause of the inflammation usually does produce other symptoms though. Think fatigue, joints, stuff like that. It's one of the many biomarkers that can alert people to change their lifestyle and diet. When they do, they usually feel much better and there will be a reduction in inflammatory markers coincidental with them feeling better.