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> We also discovered an extra-pair-paternity event in Beethoven’s paternal line I’m not a Beethoven scholar. Is this a novel discovery?

bloak 1y ago
No idea! But I found this part of the paper confusing: "between the conception of Aert van Beethoven’s son Hendrik in Kampenhout, Belgium, in c.1572, and the conception of Ludwig van Beethoven seven generations later in 1770, in Bonn, Germany". I think that means that there were 8 generations from Aert to the famous composer, so Aert was the great...grandfather with 6 greats. (How many people know their family history that far back?) The Wikipedia article for the composer's grandfather (who was also called Ludwig) says: in 1712 two boys named Ludwig van Beethoven were born. The two families were distantly related. [...] it is not certain "which Ludwig" actually settled in Bonn in 1733 But presumably both of those boys were officially descended from Aert so it doesn't matter for the purposes of this analysis.
- Archelaos 1y ago
  > How many people know their family history that far back? That is not so uncommon in Europe. Both from my maternal and paternal line the oldest ancestors I am aware of lived almost 400 years ago, in the mid 17th century. Before that the registers from my region are very patchy, because of the devastations of the Thirty Years' War. Were this is not the case, it is not uncommon that one is able to continue the line back to the 16th century, especially for people living in towns (not to speak of the aristocracy). Or, as another example, here is photo of the reunion of the "descendants and sides relatives of Dr. Martin Luther and Katharina von Bora" (not related to myself): https://www.lutheriden.de/the-lutheriden.html https://www.lutheriden.de/the-lutheriden.html
- AfterHIA 1y ago
  The whole, "no idea!" leading the comment is Norm level digital oration. Take your goddamned upvote. You've earned it slick.
- atombender 1y ago
  > How many people know their family history that far back? Very common to be able to do this in Europe. I've traced my family back to the early 1500s via Ancestry.com, and my family tree isn't anything special. Before that period, records get very sparse among the common folk, though, and you pretty much need to have a strong connection with nobility to go further back in time.
advisedwang 1y ago
The article says: > One Beethoven biographer63 has previously suggested, on circumstantial grounds, that Ludwig senior may not have been Johann van Beethoven’s biological father > 63 Canisius, C. Beethoven “Sehnsucht und Unruhe in der Musik”: Aspekte zu Leben und Werk Originalausgabe. Schott, 1992 So it's been hypothesized but presumably not demonstrated genetically.

bloak 1y ago

No idea! But I found this part of the paper confusing: "between the conception of Aert van Beethoven’s son Hendrik in Kampenhout, Belgium, in c.1572, and the conception of Ludwig van Beethoven seven generations later in 1770, in Bonn, Germany". I think that means that there were 8 generations from Aert to the famous composer, so Aert was the great...grandfather with 6 greats. (How many people know their family history that far back?) The Wikipedia article for the composer's grandfather (who was also called Ludwig) says: in 1712 two boys named Ludwig van Beethoven were born. The two families were distantly related. [...] it is not certain "which Ludwig" actually settled in Bonn in 1733 But presumably both of those boys were officially descended from Aert so it doesn't matter for the purposes of this analysis.

Archelaos 1y ago
> How many people know their family history that far back? That is not so uncommon in Europe. Both from my maternal and paternal line the oldest ancestors I am aware of lived almost 400 years ago, in the mid 17th century. Before that the registers from my region are very patchy, because of the devastations of the Thirty Years' War. Were this is not the case, it is not uncommon that one is able to continue the line back to the 16th century, especially for people living in towns (not to speak of the aristocracy). Or, as another example, here is photo of the reunion of the "descendants and sides relatives of Dr. Martin Luther and Katharina von Bora" (not related to myself): https://www.lutheriden.de/the-lutheriden.html https://www.lutheriden.de/the-lutheriden.html
AfterHIA 1y ago
The whole, "no idea!" leading the comment is Norm level digital oration. Take your goddamned upvote. You've earned it slick.
atombender 1y ago
> How many people know their family history that far back? Very common to be able to do this in Europe. I've traced my family back to the early 1500s via Ancestry.com, and my family tree isn't anything special. Before that period, records get very sparse among the common folk, though, and you pretty much need to have a strong connection with nobility to go further back in time.

advisedwang 1y ago

The article says: > One Beethoven biographer63 has previously suggested, on circumstantial grounds, that Ludwig senior may not have been Johann van Beethoven’s biological father > 63 Canisius, C. Beethoven “Sehnsucht und Unruhe in der Musik”: Aspekte zu Leben und Werk Originalausgabe. Schott, 1992 So it's been hypothesized but presumably not demonstrated genetically.