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Strategies change. That was 7 years ago, pre-Apple Silicon. It turns out that people want windowing options on their large and expensive tablet, to do long-runn

Strategies change. That was 7 years ago, pre-Apple Silicon. It turns out that people want windowing options on their large and expensive tablet, to do long-running tasks in the background, etc.

jtbayly 1y ago
If that were all they were doing, nobody would be concerned. It’s the crapifying of the MacOS in order to make it work fine with a touch interface that drives everybody bonkers about the slow merge.
- jama211 1y ago
  I have Tahoe and it’s just as good at being a desktop os as any of the previous os’s. Not sure what you’re referring to.
  - ethanwillis 1y ago
    There have been lots of complaints all over the place that contradict your experience. One article that talks about it: https://osxdaily.com/2025/09/19/why-im-holding-off-on-upgrading-to-macos-tahoe-26-for-now/ https://osxdaily.com/2025/09/19/why-im-holding-off-on-upgrad... For less discerning users maybe the rough edges aren't that noticeable. But the point of choosing Apple products is you should be a discerning consumer.
    - detourdog 1y ago
      This a pretty insulting comment. I’m sure ther is better word then discerning.
      - ethanwillis 1y ago
        I was actually trying to be more neutral :\ than saying something like for consumers with taste the point i'm trying to make is that "apple consumers" are more critical.
        detourdog 1y ago
        I understand. I have been using a Mac since 1984 and I actually like glass more than the flat aesthetic we have been through. I see it as closer to Aqua and a subtler skeuomorphic effort. I have reported to Apple some of the problems liquid glass has. I see Liquid glass as better than what we had before.
        jama211 1y ago
        Also me having a different experience from you doesn’t make me any less critical or discerning or makes me have less taste. There’s no good way to phrase a thought that is fundamentally flawed.
      - jama211 1y ago
        Thank you
    - jama211 1y ago
      That article mentions basically that they’ve heard that some apps crash a bit but it’s anecdotal and not uncommon with beta/new upgrades before a patch or two (not uncommon), and that he personally dislikes or has trouble with some of the transparency or other design changes. Neither of those things worry me personally, and I think the previous user calling it a “crappification” is still somewhat of an overreaction. Obviously from an accessibility standpoint transparency/legibility is important but as far as I’m aware tweaks are being made and these things can also be turned off or modified in accessibility settings.
latexr 1y ago
> That was 7 years ago, pre-Apple Silicon. There have been rumours of Apple wanting to shift Macs to ARM chips for 14 years. When they made that announcement, they already knew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Apple_silicon#Processor_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Apple_silico... It was obvious it was going to happen. I remember seeing Apple announcing iPads doing tasks my Mac at the time could only dream of and thinking they would surely do the switch. > It turns out that people want windowing options on their large and expensive tablet, to do long-running tasks in the background The problem isn’t them making iOS (or iPadOS) more like macOS, it’s them doing the reverse.
- CharlesW 1y ago
  > When they made that announcement, they already knew. Yep, the ongoing convergence made that pretty clear. The emphatic "No" was to reassure 2018's macOS developers that they wouldn't need to rewrite their apps as xOS apps anytime soon, which was (and is) true 7 years later. This is the same session where Craig said, "There are millions of iOS apps out there. We think some of them would look great on the Mac." and announced that Mohave would include xOS apps. Every developer there understood that, as time went on, they would be using more and more shared APIs and frameworks. > The problem isn’t them making iOS (or iPadOS) more like macOS, it’s them doing the reverse. That ship has sailed, but it's also completely overblown.
  - latexr 1y ago
    > but it's also completely overblown. Speak for yourself. I for one despise the current direction of the Mac and the complete disregard for the (once good) Human Interface Guidelines. It’s everywhere on macOS now. Simple example: The fugly switches which replaced checkboxes. Not only to they look wrong on the Mac, they’re less functional. With checkboxes you can click their text to toggle them; not so with the switches. I’m not even going to touch on the Liquid Glass bugs, or I’d be writing a comment the length of the Iliad.
    - CharlesW 1y ago

Strategies change. That was 7 years ago, pre-Apple Silicon. It turns out that people want windowing options on their large and expensive tablet, to do long-running tasks in the background, etc.

jtbayly 1y ago

If that were all they were doing, nobody would be concerned. It’s the crapifying of the MacOS in order to make it work fine with a touch interface that drives everybody bonkers about the slow merge.

jama211 1y ago
I have Tahoe and it’s just as good at being a desktop os as any of the previous os’s. Not sure what you’re referring to.
- ethanwillis 1y ago
  There have been lots of complaints all over the place that contradict your experience. One article that talks about it: https://osxdaily.com/2025/09/19/why-im-holding-off-on-upgrading-to-macos-tahoe-26-for-now/ https://osxdaily.com/2025/09/19/why-im-holding-off-on-upgrad... For less discerning users maybe the rough edges aren't that noticeable. But the point of choosing Apple products is you should be a discerning consumer.
  - detourdog 1y ago
    This a pretty insulting comment. I’m sure ther is better word then discerning.
    - ethanwillis 1y ago
      I was actually trying to be more neutral :\ than saying something like for consumers with taste the point i'm trying to make is that "apple consumers" are more critical.
      - detourdog 1y ago
        I understand. I have been using a Mac since 1984 and I actually like glass more than the flat aesthetic we have been through. I see it as closer to Aqua and a subtler skeuomorphic effort. I have reported to Apple some of the problems liquid glass has. I see Liquid glass as better than what we had before.
      - jama211 1y ago
        Also me having a different experience from you doesn’t make me any less critical or discerning or makes me have less taste. There’s no good way to phrase a thought that is fundamentally flawed.
    - jama211 1y ago
      Thank you
  - jama211 1y ago
    That article mentions basically that they’ve heard that some apps crash a bit but it’s anecdotal and not uncommon with beta/new upgrades before a patch or two (not uncommon), and that he personally dislikes or has trouble with some of the transparency or other design changes. Neither of those things worry me personally, and I think the previous user calling it a “crappification” is still somewhat of an overreaction. Obviously from an accessibility standpoint transparency/legibility is important but as far as I’m aware tweaks are being made and these things can also be turned off or modified in accessibility settings.

latexr 1y ago

> That was 7 years ago, pre-Apple Silicon. There have been rumours of Apple wanting to shift Macs to ARM chips for 14 years. When they made that announcement, they already knew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Apple_silicon#Processor_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Apple_silico... It was obvious it was going to happen. I remember seeing Apple announcing iPads doing tasks my Mac at the time could only dream of and thinking they would surely do the switch. > It turns out that people want windowing options on their large and expensive tablet, to do long-running tasks in the background The problem isn’t them making iOS (or iPadOS) more like macOS, it’s them doing the reverse.

CharlesW 1y ago
> When they made that announcement, they already knew. Yep, the ongoing convergence made that pretty clear. The emphatic "No" was to reassure 2018's macOS developers that they wouldn't need to rewrite their apps as xOS apps anytime soon, which was (and is) true 7 years later. This is the same session where Craig said, "There are millions of iOS apps out there. We think some of them would look great on the Mac." and announced that Mohave would include xOS apps. Every developer there understood that, as time went on, they would be using more and more shared APIs and frameworks. > The problem isn’t them making iOS (or iPadOS) more like macOS, it’s them doing the reverse. That ship has sailed, but it's also completely overblown.
- latexr 1y ago
  > but it's also completely overblown. Speak for yourself. I for one despise the current direction of the Mac and the complete disregard for the (once good) Human Interface Guidelines. It’s everywhere on macOS now. Simple example: The fugly switches which replaced checkboxes. Not only to they look wrong on the Mac, they’re less functional. With checkboxes you can click their text to toggle them; not so with the switches. I’m not even going to touch on the Liquid Glass bugs, or I’d be writing a comment the length of the Iliad.
  - CharlesW 1y ago