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What are you thinking the crime would be? He bet his company on a literal toss of the dice instead of the routine figurative ones. Outside of Bribery and ?SarB

What are you thinking the crime would be? He bet his company on a literal toss of the dice instead of the routine figurative ones. Outside of Bribery and ?SarBox? (Whichever regulation handles kickbacks, etc), I can't think of anything.

mothballed 1y ago
If you spend investor money at a literal casino while advertising a non-casino related business, and pay the investors back, probably people will view you as not committing a crime. If you get investor money or get a loan on the basis of funding logistics investments, bet it on roulette red, and go bankrupt, I would expect you'd be looking at hard jail time for fraud. So I'm thinking the crime would be nothing, because he was a winner, and the optics totally changed, and fraud relies on very subjective opinions of a jury.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  There are lots of examples of people going to jail despite investors getting their money back, like SBF and Shkreli. Even Madoff investors got 94% of their investments back.
  - mothballed 1y ago
    Shkreli is the only one of those 3 that fully paid back his investors, and it took him pissing off virtually every politician and a bunch of wealthy insurance executives/administrators to get enough resources mobilized to get a conviction (and being one of the most uncharismatic people on earth, which didn't help him at trial). I think you are definitely in a much worse place for a fraud conviction if you lose money.
    - bryanlarsen 1y ago
      News stories said SBF investors were going to get 118% of their money back. Did that not happen? https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/08/ftx-crypto-fraud-victims-to-get-their-money-back-plus-interest/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/08/ftx-crypto-fraud-victims-t...
      - mothballed 1y ago
        No because the assets ('money') deposited to SBF were crypto, and you just gamified it by doing a currency exchange to USD while disingenuously failing to note that in that time the USD value of the crypto went up. If you want an accurate reflection, note how much of the crypto deposited went in, and then how much came back out after SBF lost it. This would be like me depositing USD, someone stealing some of it, then you bragging the value went up because I have a larger quantity as measured in Venezuelan Bolivars. What actually happened is their % they recouped was less than 100 until you artificially change to an entirely different currency.
        bryanlarsen 1y ago
        Sure, if you believe crypto is a currency.
        Macha 1y ago
        It’s not super relevant. If you were responsible for managing a property for someone and instead sold it outside your agreed authority and dumped the money into nvidia shares in 2020, you’d still be in trouble with the owner of that property even if the nvidia shares did better in USD terms than the property would have
        bryanlarsen 1y ago
        Yes, which is why SBF is in jail for 25 years.
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        Ok, I deposit stock shares, you lose 50% of them under the couch, but the stock price goes up 110% so when the government seizes and liquidates your assets I have slightly more cash than the original value of what I deposited. Did you lose me money?
        bryanlarsen 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
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mothballed 1y ago

If you spend investor money at a literal casino while advertising a non-casino related business, and pay the investors back, probably people will view you as not committing a crime. If you get investor money or get a loan on the basis of funding logistics investments, bet it on roulette red, and go bankrupt, I would expect you'd be looking at hard jail time for fraud. So I'm thinking the crime would be nothing, because he was a winner, and the optics totally changed, and fraud relies on very subjective opinions of a jury.

bryanlarsen 1y ago
There are lots of examples of people going to jail despite investors getting their money back, like SBF and Shkreli. Even Madoff investors got 94% of their investments back.
- mothballed 1y ago
  Shkreli is the only one of those 3 that fully paid back his investors, and it took him pissing off virtually every politician and a bunch of wealthy insurance executives/administrators to get enough resources mobilized to get a conviction (and being one of the most uncharismatic people on earth, which didn't help him at trial). I think you are definitely in a much worse place for a fraud conviction if you lose money.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    News stories said SBF investors were going to get 118% of their money back. Did that not happen? https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/08/ftx-crypto-fraud-victims-to-get-their-money-back-plus-interest/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/08/ftx-crypto-fraud-victims-t...
    - mothballed 1y ago
      No because the assets ('money') deposited to SBF were crypto, and you just gamified it by doing a currency exchange to USD while disingenuously failing to note that in that time the USD value of the crypto went up. If you want an accurate reflection, note how much of the crypto deposited went in, and then how much came back out after SBF lost it. This would be like me depositing USD, someone stealing some of it, then you bragging the value went up because I have a larger quantity as measured in Venezuelan Bolivars. What actually happened is their % they recouped was less than 100 until you artificially change to an entirely different currency.
      - bryanlarsen 1y ago
        Sure, if you believe crypto is a currency.
        Macha 1y ago
        It’s not super relevant. If you were responsible for managing a property for someone and instead sold it outside your agreed authority and dumped the money into nvidia shares in 2020, you’d still be in trouble with the owner of that property even if the nvidia shares did better in USD terms than the property would have
        bryanlarsen 1y ago
        Yes, which is why SBF is in jail for 25 years.
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        Ok, I deposit stock shares, you lose 50% of them under the couch, but the stock price goes up 110% so when the government seizes and liquidates your assets I have slightly more cash than the original value of what I deposited. Did you lose me money?
        bryanlarsen 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

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