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The entire case settled, the authors aren’t going to appeal when the company can’t hand out much more than the 1.5 billion in question and the company isn’t all

by Retric 1y ago

The entire case settled, the authors aren’t going to appeal when the company can’t hand out much more than the 1.5 billion in question and the company isn’t allowed to use the works in question going forward.

otterley 1y ago
Before the settlement was made, Judge Alsup found as a matter of law that the training stage constituted fair use. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.434709/gov.uscourts.cand.434709.231.0_4.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.43...
- Retric 1y ago
  A judge yes, but that’s subject to appeal. The point is it never reached that stage and never will.
  - otterley 1y ago
    As an attorney, I'm trying to understand what you're getting at. His opinion, while interlocutory and not binding precedent, will be cited in future cases. And his wasn't the only one. In Kadrey v. Meta Platforms, Inc., No. 23-cv-03417 (N.D. Cal. June 25, 2025) Judge Chhabria reached the same conclusion. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.415175/gov.uscourts.cand.415175.598.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41... In neither case has an appeal been sought.
    - Retric 1y ago
      I’m saying legally things aren’t clear cut at this point. If you’ve read Kadrey the judge says harm from competing with the output of authors would be problematic. Quite relevant for software developers suing about code generation but much harder for novelists to prove. However, the judge came to the opposite conclusion about using pirate websites to download the books in question. A new AI company that is expecting to face a large number of lawsuits and win some while losing others isn’t in a great position.
      - otterley 1y ago
        The judge didn’t come to an opposite legal conclusion about using pirated works. The judge concluded that the claim of using pirated works was unsubstantiated by the plaintiffs.

by Retric 1y ago

otterley 1y ago

Before the settlement was made, Judge Alsup found as a matter of law that the training stage constituted fair use. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.434709/gov.uscourts.cand.434709.231.0_4.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.43...

Retric 1y ago
A judge yes, but that’s subject to appeal. The point is it never reached that stage and never will.
- otterley 1y ago
  As an attorney, I'm trying to understand what you're getting at. His opinion, while interlocutory and not binding precedent, will be cited in future cases. And his wasn't the only one. In Kadrey v. Meta Platforms, Inc., No. 23-cv-03417 (N.D. Cal. June 25, 2025) Judge Chhabria reached the same conclusion. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.415175/gov.uscourts.cand.415175.598.0_1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.41... In neither case has an appeal been sought.
  - Retric 1y ago
    I’m saying legally things aren’t clear cut at this point. If you’ve read Kadrey the judge says harm from competing with the output of authors would be problematic. Quite relevant for software developers suing about code generation but much harder for novelists to prove. However, the judge came to the opposite conclusion about using pirate websites to download the books in question. A new AI company that is expecting to face a large number of lawsuits and win some while losing others isn’t in a great position.
    - otterley 1y ago
      The judge didn’t come to an opposite legal conclusion about using pirated works. The judge concluded that the claim of using pirated works was unsubstantiated by the plaintiffs.