4 ms·

Have you noticed ICE's budget lately?

mc32 1y ago
ICE doesn’t do law enforcement against citizens. It does affect citizens tangentially but not directly. ICE will not come after citizens for crimes. That would be regular local police, state police or FBI/ATF, etc. ICE is immigration enforcement. Some people may not like that especially illegal residents but it would be a poor way to affect citizens like fascists or communists did.
- thunderfork 1y ago
  [dead]
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  You haven't been paying attention.
  - mc32 1y ago
    What do you mean? If you mean interfering with officers carrying out their duties, then yes, people do get arrested for that. But you would get arrested for interfering with any law enforcement. People do get to protest but they do not get the right to protest violently nor do they get a right to interfere with law enforcement just because they disagree with the law. Just like if you want to protest eminent domain but officers come in to move out protesters getting in the way of construction. People will get arrested. You can protest peacefully. You cannot interfere with official acts or be violent.
    - blurbleblurble 1y ago
      Let me be clear that ICE = DHS in my mind. https://www.npr.org/2025/06/30/nx-s1-5445398/denaturalization-trump-immigration-enforcement https://www.npr.org/2025/06/30/nx-s1-5445398/denaturalizatio... https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-common-beliefs https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-commo... This hasn't gone through but it's abundantly clear what the goals are: https://www.nationofchange.org/2025/09/15/house-bill-would-let-marco-rubio-strip-passports-over-political-speech/ https://www.nationofchange.org/2025/09/15/house-bill-would-l...
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/09/30/citizens-seek-damages-after-violent-ice-arrests/86419733007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/09/30/citize... https://www.wbez.org/immigration/2025/09/28/ice-made-unlawful-arrests-during-operation-midway-blitz-new-court-filing-says https://www.wbez.org/immigration/2025/09/28/ice-made-unlawfu... https://goldman.house.gov/media/press-releases/goldman-warren-padilla-kelly-and-correa-demand-investigations-ices-detention https://goldman.house.gov/media/press-releases/goldman-warre... Just a few of the hits for "us citizen ice arrest"
- staplers 1y ago
  What does the national guard do against citizens?
  - mc32 1y ago
    Kind of the same role they played during the civil rights struggle. They are there to bolster law enforcement when local law enforcement may be overwhelmed enforcing federal law.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  ICE will (and already are to an extent) come after anyone who looks like trouble. If they want to superficially follow the law, they beat people up and release them after 23 hours after "discovering" the person is a citizen. Then, repeat as many times as necessary. Since nobody actually knows who ICE is, it can devolve pretty easily from there. The most pedestrian would be protection money to avoid detention, from citizens and non-citizens, it doesn't matter.
- flohofwoe 1y ago
  The Nazis and Communists also didn't come after 'citizens' at first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
- cogman10 1y ago
  Trump has actively talked about denaturalizing his enemies [1]. You would be technically correct that he's not going after citizens, but that's only because he'll declare everyone he doesn't like antifa and thus not worthy of citizenship. A move, I should point out, that the Nazis did to the Jews and Communists. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/01/27/trump-resumes-threat-to-denaturalize-citizens/77905612007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/01/27/trum...
pfannkuchen 1y ago
I find the constant equating of illegal immigrants with Jews who lived legally in Germany for many generations and who had done nothing illegal or wrong at all very disturbing. It minimizes what happened there.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
  And that happened where in my comment?
  - pfannkuchen 1y ago
    If not for Nazi Germany, would the behavior of the current admin, especially with respect to ICE, be labeled “fascist”? My impression is that the optics of vanning people is reminiscent of the optics of what happened in Germany, and so the label comes out. This is bolstered by Nazi Germany being probably the most covered topic in American history class for the past many decades, as well as similar coverage in Hollywood, to the point where “bad guy” and Nazi/fascist are basically synonyms. Are you coming from somewhere else?
- naabb 1y ago
  You're saying that ICE only targets illegal immigrants? how do they know who's an illegal immigrant? skin colour? Because that's the criteria they're applying right now. Also what do you say about ICE detaining legal residents? you stated "equating illegal immigrants with Jews [...]" as if ICE is only detaining illegal immigrants. They're not. They're detaining anyone who isn't white enough. Members of the Trump regime have also threatened to deport legal citizens who are just exercicing their free speech. You're anti free speech as well? When is your moral framework going to kick in and call a spade a spade?
- computerthings 1y ago
  [dead]
- heavyset_go 1y ago
  I mean, you can be just as callous and say that those who remained in Germany after the country legally revoked their citizenship[1] had, in fact, done something illegal by remaining there. They were just as illegal as a kid who has lived here since she was 3 months old. Yours is also the same argument that was made for years about not including LGBT people among the victims of the Holocaust, since they had in fact broken the law by existing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Reich_Citizenship_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Reich_Citizensh...
philipallstar 1y ago
If anything, fascism has historically been pretty in favour of being in other countries without their permission.

mc32 1y ago

ICE doesn’t do law enforcement against citizens. It does affect citizens tangentially but not directly. ICE will not come after citizens for crimes. That would be regular local police, state police or FBI/ATF, etc. ICE is immigration enforcement. Some people may not like that especially illegal residents but it would be a poor way to affect citizens like fascists or communists did.

thunderfork 1y ago
[dead]
blurbleblurble 1y ago
You haven't been paying attention.
- mc32 1y ago
  What do you mean? If you mean interfering with officers carrying out their duties, then yes, people do get arrested for that. But you would get arrested for interfering with any law enforcement. People do get to protest but they do not get the right to protest violently nor do they get a right to interfere with law enforcement just because they disagree with the law. Just like if you want to protest eminent domain but officers come in to move out protesters getting in the way of construction. People will get arrested. You can protest peacefully. You cannot interfere with official acts or be violent.
  - blurbleblurble 1y ago
    Let me be clear that ICE = DHS in my mind. https://www.npr.org/2025/06/30/nx-s1-5445398/denaturalization-trump-immigration-enforcement https://www.npr.org/2025/06/30/nx-s1-5445398/denaturalizatio... https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-common-beliefs https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-commo... This hasn't gone through but it's abundantly clear what the goals are: https://www.nationofchange.org/2025/09/15/house-bill-would-let-marco-rubio-strip-passports-over-political-speech/ https://www.nationofchange.org/2025/09/15/house-bill-would-l...
sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/09/30/citizens-seek-damages-after-violent-ice-arrests/86419733007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/09/30/citize... https://www.wbez.org/immigration/2025/09/28/ice-made-unlawful-arrests-during-operation-midway-blitz-new-court-filing-says https://www.wbez.org/immigration/2025/09/28/ice-made-unlawfu... https://goldman.house.gov/media/press-releases/goldman-warren-padilla-kelly-and-correa-demand-investigations-ices-detention https://goldman.house.gov/media/press-releases/goldman-warre... Just a few of the hits for "us citizen ice arrest"
staplers 1y ago
What does the national guard do against citizens?
- mc32 1y ago
  Kind of the same role they played during the civil rights struggle. They are there to bolster law enforcement when local law enforcement may be overwhelmed enforcing federal law.
actionfromafar 1y ago
ICE will (and already are to an extent) come after anyone who looks like trouble. If they want to superficially follow the law, they beat people up and release them after 23 hours after "discovering" the person is a citizen. Then, repeat as many times as necessary. Since nobody actually knows who ICE is, it can devolve pretty easily from there. The most pedestrian would be protection money to avoid detention, from citizens and non-citizens, it doesn't matter.
flohofwoe 1y ago
The Nazis and Communists also didn't come after 'citizens' at first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
cogman10 1y ago
Trump has actively talked about denaturalizing his enemies [1]. You would be technically correct that he's not going after citizens, but that's only because he'll declare everyone he doesn't like antifa and thus not worthy of citizenship. A move, I should point out, that the Nazis did to the Jews and Communists. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/01/27/trump-resumes-threat-to-denaturalize-citizens/77905612007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/01/27/trum...

pfannkuchen 1y ago

I find the constant equating of illegal immigrants with Jews who lived legally in Germany for many generations and who had done nothing illegal or wrong at all very disturbing. It minimizes what happened there.

sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
And that happened where in my comment?
- pfannkuchen 1y ago
  If not for Nazi Germany, would the behavior of the current admin, especially with respect to ICE, be labeled “fascist”? My impression is that the optics of vanning people is reminiscent of the optics of what happened in Germany, and so the label comes out. This is bolstered by Nazi Germany being probably the most covered topic in American history class for the past many decades, as well as similar coverage in Hollywood, to the point where “bad guy” and Nazi/fascist are basically synonyms. Are you coming from somewhere else?
naabb 1y ago
You're saying that ICE only targets illegal immigrants? how do they know who's an illegal immigrant? skin colour? Because that's the criteria they're applying right now. Also what do you say about ICE detaining legal residents? you stated "equating illegal immigrants with Jews [...]" as if ICE is only detaining illegal immigrants. They're not. They're detaining anyone who isn't white enough. Members of the Trump regime have also threatened to deport legal citizens who are just exercicing their free speech. You're anti free speech as well? When is your moral framework going to kick in and call a spade a spade?
computerthings 1y ago
[dead]
heavyset_go 1y ago
I mean, you can be just as callous and say that those who remained in Germany after the country legally revoked their citizenship[1] had, in fact, done something illegal by remaining there. They were just as illegal as a kid who has lived here since she was 3 months old. Yours is also the same argument that was made for years about not including LGBT people among the victims of the Holocaust, since they had in fact broken the law by existing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Reich_Citizenship_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Reich_Citizensh...

philipallstar 1y ago

If anything, fascism has historically been pretty in favour of being in other countries without their permission.