5 ms·
Fascists generally want everything centrally controlled. Not really a small government mindset.
by philipallstar 1y ago
Fascists generally want everything centrally controlled. Not really a small government mindset.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y agoHave you noticed ICE's budget lately?
- mc32 1y agoICE doesn’t do law enforcement against citizens. It does affect citizens tangentially but not directly. ICE will not come after citizens for crimes. That would be regular local police, state police or FBI/ATF, etc. ICE is immigration enforcement. Some people may not like that especially illegal residents but it would be a poor way to affect citizens like fascists or communists did.
- thunderfork 1y ago[dead]
- blurbleblurble 1y agoYou haven't been paying attention.
- mc32 1y agoWhat do you mean? If you mean interfering with officers carrying out their duties, then yes, people do get arrested for that. But you would get arrested for interfering with any law enforcement. People do get to protest but they do not get the right to protest violently nor do they get a right to interfere with law enforcement just because they disagree with the law. Just like if you want to protest eminent domain but officers come in to move out protesters getting in the way of construction. People will get arrested. You can protest peacefully. You cannot interfere with official acts or be violent.
- blurbleblurble 1y agoLet me be clear that ICE = DHS in my mind. https://www.npr.org/2025/06/30/nx-s1-5445398/denaturalization-trump-immigration-enforcement https://www.npr.org/2025/06/30/nx-s1-5445398/denaturalizatio... https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-common-beliefs https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-commo... This hasn't gone through but it's abundantly clear what the goals are: https://www.nationofchange.org/2025/09/15/house-bill-would-let-marco-rubio-strip-passports-over-political-speech/ https://www.nationofchange.org/2025/09/15/house-bill-would-l...
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y agohttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/09/30/citizens-seek-damages-after-violent-ice-arrests/86419733007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/09/30/citize... https://www.wbez.org/immigration/2025/09/28/ice-made-unlawful-arrests-during-operation-midway-blitz-new-court-filing-says https://www.wbez.org/immigration/2025/09/28/ice-made-unlawfu... https://goldman.house.gov/media/press-releases/goldman-warren-padilla-kelly-and-correa-demand-investigations-ices-detention https://goldman.house.gov/media/press-releases/goldman-warre... Just a few of the hits for "us citizen ice arrest"
- staplers 1y agoWhat does the national guard do against citizens?
- mc32 1y agoKind of the same role they played during the civil rights struggle. They are there to bolster law enforcement when local law enforcement may be overwhelmed enforcing federal law.
- actionfromafar 1y agoICE will (and already are to an extent) come after anyone who looks like trouble. If they want to superficially follow the law, they beat people up and release them after 23 hours after "discovering" the person is a citizen. Then, repeat as many times as necessary. Since nobody actually knows who ICE is, it can devolve pretty easily from there. The most pedestrian would be protection money to avoid detention, from citizens and non-citizens, it doesn't matter.
- flohofwoe 1y agoThe Nazis and Communists also didn't come after 'citizens' at first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
- cogman10 1y agoTrump has actively talked about denaturalizing his enemies [1]. You would be technically correct that he's not going after citizens, but that's only because he'll declare everyone he doesn't like antifa and thus not worthy of citizenship. A move, I should point out, that the Nazis did to the Jews and Communists. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/01/27/trump-resumes-threat-to-denaturalize-citizens/77905612007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/01/27/trum...
- pfannkuchen 1y agoI find the constant equating of illegal immigrants with Jews who lived legally in Germany for many generations and who had done nothing illegal or wrong at all very disturbing. It minimizes what happened there.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y agoAnd that happened where in my comment?
- pfannkuchen 1y agoIf not for Nazi Germany, would the behavior of the current admin, especially with respect to ICE, be labeled “fascist”? My impression is that the optics of vanning people is reminiscent of the optics of what happened in Germany, and so the label comes out. This is bolstered by Nazi Germany being probably the most covered topic in American history class for the past many decades, as well as similar coverage in Hollywood, to the point where “bad guy” and Nazi/fascist are basically synonyms. Are you coming from somewhere else?
- naabb 1y agoYou're saying that ICE only targets illegal immigrants? how do they know who's an illegal immigrant? skin colour? Because that's the criteria they're applying right now. Also what do you say about ICE detaining legal residents? you stated "equating illegal immigrants with Jews [...]" as if ICE is only detaining illegal immigrants. They're not. They're detaining anyone who isn't white enough. Members of the Trump regime have also threatened to deport legal citizens who are just exercicing their free speech. You're anti free speech as well? When is your moral framework going to kick in and call a spade a spade?
- computerthings 1y ago[dead]
- heavyset_go 1y agoI mean, you can be just as callous and say that those who remained in Germany after the country legally revoked their citizenship[1] had, in fact, done something illegal by remaining there. They were just as illegal as a kid who has lived here since she was 3 months old. Yours is also the same argument that was made for years about not including LGBT people among the victims of the Holocaust, since they had in fact broken the law by existing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Reich_Citizenship_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Reich_Citizensh...
- philipallstar 1y agoIf anything, fascism has historically been pretty in favour of being in other countries without their permission.
- lawn 1y agoThey don't demonstrate a small government mindset. The amount of micromanagement is just ridiculous. To gain control they must first purge the people who don't follow their whims.
- actionfromafar 1y agoThey generally don't like public servants to actually serve the public and follow the law. There must first be a purge.
- bryanlarsen 1y agoFascists generally want everything centrally controlled, but the mechanism generally used is government control of industry. The government itself might become relatively small because government functions are performed by industry in government control. Or by the military, not the civilian government.
- AlexandrB 1y agoDon't bother with nuance, in 2025 everything bad[1] is "fascism". The idea that authoritarianism can have any other form seems to be forgotten. [1] Often defined as something a poster doesn't agree with, thought sometimes genuinely bad things as well.
- HanClinto 1y ago> The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable." From "Politics and the English Language" by George Orwell (1946)
- bigfudge 1y agoI don't think Facism is a meaningless concept, or the use of it to describe Trump/MAGA is empty. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism --- In his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism", cultural theorist Umberto Eco lists fourteen general properties of fascist ideology.[17] He argues that it is not possible to organise these into a coherent system, but that "it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it". He uses the term "Ur-Fascism" as a generic description of different historical forms of fascism. The fourteen properties are as follows: "The cult of tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement. "The rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system. "The cult of action for action's sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science. "Disagreement is treason" – fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith. "Fear of difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants. "Appeal to a frustrated middle class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups. "Obsession with a plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society (such as the German elite's "fear" of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings; see also antisemitism). Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession. Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak". On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will. "Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy" because "life is permanent warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war. "Contempt for the weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate leader, who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force. "Everybody is educated to become a hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death." "Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality". "Selective populism" – the people, conceived monolithically, have a common will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he alone dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the voice of the people". "Newspeak" – fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary to limit critical reasoning. From a European perspective, it's really hard not to see much/all of this resonating in MAGA USA.
- notfromhere 1y agoIn the U.S. context this impacts agencies that regulate industry and offer beneficial state services (healthcare, food inspection, pollution monitoring) and not services that impact state control (DHS, the military, or domestic secret police (FBI)). The longstanding goal has been to undo the new deal
- yndoendo 1y agoI recommend _Culture in Nazi Germany_ by Michael H. Kater. [1] Propaganda was the control they wanted. 3rd party companies and organizations allowed for a pseud disconnect with the shared propaganda. See this paper, music group, artist supports our ideology and we are not paying them for it. Centrally controlled does not mean being centrally employed. Just take a look at all the big businesses that assisted fascism for financial gain. Lot of it being slave labor. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_.... [1] https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300253375/culture-in-nazi-germany/ https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300253375/culture-in-naz... * Added link to the book.
- philipallstar 1y agoI honestly don't understand this. Businesses have been doing loads of things along with the last government as well - silencing/reducing certain views while promoting others, and creating a monoculture throughout schools, universities, and businesses. Why do you only see it when this side does it (or some fraction of it)?