4 ms·

I don't get why Linus just didn't tell bcachefs developer to take a hike. He is BDFL. No, these changes do not belong into this part of our release window. No

by mnau 1y ago

I don't get why Linus just didn't tell bcachefs developer to take a hike. He is BDFL. No, these changes do not belong into this part of our release window. No pull. End of discussion. Instead he always talked and caved and pulled. And of course situation repeated, as they do...

arccy 1y ago
this is telling him to take a hike?
- pluto_modadic 1y ago
  to take a hike sooner*
- mnau 1y ago
  I meant not accepting pulls during rc phase, not kick him out. Instead he always sighed and accepted new features alongside with bug fixes.
- tpetry 1y ago
  Linus told him some time ago to take a hile. Kent was blocked from one (or two?) previous merge windows long ago to behave like expected from someone contributing to Linux. He didnt change. It was drama since he was first added to the kernel. This was really not the first issue.
aidenn0 1y ago
A manager must trust those people who are closer to the problem to make such decisions. When, in hindsight, it looks like the trust is habitually abused, the scalable solution isn't to micromanage that person, it's to fire them.
bombcar 1y ago
Linus did tell him to take a hike, and this is exactly what this is. Perhaps as BDFL he let it slip a few too many times, but that's generally the way you want to go - as a leader, you want to trust your subordinates are doing the right thing; which means that you'll get burned a few times until you have to take action (like this). The only other option makes you into a micromanager, which doesn't scale.
jeltz 1y ago
Maybe Linus should have acted sooner but this is exactly what happened. Linus refused to bend the rules for Kent and things got heated and eventually Kent was banned from submitting patches and Bcachefs was removed.
- dlivingston 1y ago
  What's the backstory here? I'm totally out of the loop.
  - jeltz 1y ago
    Kent wanted to merge new features after the merge window had been closed (bundled with a bug fix) and Linus said no and since this was not the first time Kent tried to do something like that people got angry at him. And since Kent refused to apologize for repeatedly breaking the rules things got heated.
    - dralley 1y ago
      In Kent's opinion the features were important to maintaining greater data integrity and recovering from various problems. Nobody else agreed and Kent wasn't taking no for an answer even from Linus.
    - dlivingston 1y ago
      I see, thanks. I came across this summary which echoes what you wrote: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-616-Bcachefs-Late-Feature https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-616-Bcachefs-Late-Featur...
WesolyKubeczek 1y ago
> I don't get why Linus just didn't tell bcachefs developer to take a hike. > He is BDFL. As far as I remember, "B" in "BFDL" stands for "benevolent". This usually might mean give a couple of warnings, give a benefit of doubt, extend some credit, and if that doesn't help, invoke the "D".

by mnau 1y ago

arccy 1y ago

this is telling him to take a hike?

pluto_modadic 1y ago
to take a hike sooner*
mnau 1y ago
I meant not accepting pulls during rc phase, not kick him out. Instead he always sighed and accepted new features alongside with bug fixes.
tpetry 1y ago
Linus told him some time ago to take a hile. Kent was blocked from one (or two?) previous merge windows long ago to behave like expected from someone contributing to Linux. He didnt change. It was drama since he was first added to the kernel. This was really not the first issue.

aidenn0 1y ago

A manager must trust those people who are closer to the problem to make such decisions. When, in hindsight, it looks like the trust is habitually abused, the scalable solution isn't to micromanage that person, it's to fire them.

bombcar 1y ago

Linus did tell him to take a hike, and this is exactly what this is. Perhaps as BDFL he let it slip a few too many times, but that's generally the way you want to go - as a leader, you want to trust your subordinates are doing the right thing; which means that you'll get burned a few times until you have to take action (like this). The only other option makes you into a micromanager, which doesn't scale.

jeltz 1y ago

Maybe Linus should have acted sooner but this is exactly what happened. Linus refused to bend the rules for Kent and things got heated and eventually Kent was banned from submitting patches and Bcachefs was removed.

dlivingston 1y ago
What's the backstory here? I'm totally out of the loop.
- jeltz 1y ago
  Kent wanted to merge new features after the merge window had been closed (bundled with a bug fix) and Linus said no and since this was not the first time Kent tried to do something like that people got angry at him. And since Kent refused to apologize for repeatedly breaking the rules things got heated.
  - dralley 1y ago
    In Kent's opinion the features were important to maintaining greater data integrity and recovering from various problems. Nobody else agreed and Kent wasn't taking no for an answer even from Linus.
  - dlivingston 1y ago
    I see, thanks. I came across this summary which echoes what you wrote: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-616-Bcachefs-Late-Feature https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-616-Bcachefs-Late-Featur...

WesolyKubeczek 1y ago

> I don't get why Linus just didn't tell bcachefs developer to take a hike. > He is BDFL. As far as I remember, "B" in "BFDL" stands for "benevolent". This usually might mean give a couple of warnings, give a benefit of doubt, extend some credit, and if that doesn't help, invoke the "D".