5 ms·
> I suspect that there is a strong correlation between programmers who don't think that there needs to be a model/theory, and those who are reporting that LLMs
by bob1029 1y ago
> I suspect that there is a strong correlation between programmers who don't think that there needs to be a model/theory, and those who are reporting that LLMs are speeding them up.
I have some anecdotal evidence that suggests that we can accomplish far more value-add on software projects when completely away from the computer and any related technology.
It's amazing how fast the code goes when you know exactly what you want. At this point the LLM can become very useful because its hallucinations instantly flag in your perspective. If you don't know what you want, I don't see how this works.
I really never understood the rationale of staring at the technological equivalent of a blank canvas for hours a day. The LLM might shake you loose and get you going in the right direction, but I find it much more likely to draw me into a wild goose chase.
The last 10/10 difficulty problem I solved probably happened in my kitchen while I was chopping some onions.
- dleeftink 1y agoThe illusive onion flow state!
- anon7725 1y agoelusive
- hvb2 1y ago> The last 10/10 difficulty problem I solved probably happened in my kitchen while I was chopping some onions. Let me guess, you had tears in your eyes when you found the solution?
- notpachet 1y ago> It's amazing how fast the code goes when you know exactly what you want. To quote Russ Ackoff[1]: > Improving a system requires knowing what you could do if you could do whatever you wanted to. Because if you don't know what you would do if you could do whatever you wanted to, how on earth are you going to know what you can do under constraints? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqEeIG8aPPk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqEeIG8aPPk
- jodrellblank 1y agoIf you were playing chess and could do whatever you wanted, you could take several goes in a row, take the opponents pieces off the board and move yours into a winning position. How does that help you play better under the constraints of the rules?
- munificent 1y agoThis metaphor doesn't really work because the entire point of a game—the thing that makes playing it playful—is that it has no effect on the world outside of the game itself. Thus, ignoring the rules of chess to reach a goal doesn't make sense. There are no chess goals that don't involve the game of chess. This isn't true in programming or real-world tasks where you are trying to accomplish some external objective.
- timeinput 1y agoIf you don't know you could take the king and win the game why would you bother with any of that?
- jacobolus 1y agoIf you were playing chess, and you could do whatever you wanted, you might want to, e.g., set up a beautiful mating combination using the minor pieces, set a brilliant trap with forced mate in 10 moves and then trick the opponent into falling into it, keep control of the center all game and make the opponent play in a cramped and crippled style, promote a pawn to a knight for a win, skewer the queen and king, or turn a hopelessly lost position into a draw. The constraint is: you need to take turns and the opponent wants to win / doesn't want to let you win.
- Retric 1y agoIt’s actually useful technique in chess to see what you would do if you could make multiple moves in a row. If I could move my Rook there it’s a win, is there any way I can make that happen? How about if I sacrifice my knight etc.
- cozzyd 1y agoThe risk there is I chop my fingers too
- rhetocj23 1y ago"I have some anecdotal evidence that suggests that we can accomplish far more value-add on software projects when completely away from the computer and any related technology. It's amazing how fast the code goes when you know exactly what you want" Yeah its the same reason why demand for pen and paper still exists. Its the absolute best way for one to think and get their thoughts out. I can personally attest to this - no digital whiteboard can ever compete with just a pen and paper. My best and original ideas come from a blank paper and a pen. Solutions can emerge from anywhere. But its likely to happen when the mind is focused in a calm state - thats why walking for instance is great.
- CliffStoll 1y agoStrongly agree: scribbling requirements, process maps, and block diagrams goes a long way to understanding what needs to be done, as well as getting us to think through what'll be the easy parts and pinch-points. Goes back to Fred Brooks' Mythical Man-Month: Start with understanding the requirements; then design the architecture. Only after that, begin programming.
- rerdavies 1y agoAnd how did that turn out? Complete and utter disaster, as I remember it.
- cantor_S_drug 1y agoAnother aspect is test cases constrains the domain of possible correct codes by a lot ( a randomly picked number will never solve a quadratic equation, by having many such quadratic equations [test cases] simulatenously, we are imposing lot of constraints on the solution space). Let's say I want LLM to write a regex but by having it run on test cases, I can gain confidence. This is the thesis of Simon Willison. Once LLMs continuously learn about what a code "means" in a tight REPL internal loop, it will start to gain better understanding.
- skydhash 1y agoThe thing is that for most code, the meaning is outside the code itself. The code is just a description of a computable solution. But both the problem and foundational solution is out there, not in the code. And some code are solving additional complexities not essential ones (like making it POSIX instead of using bashisms). In this case, it’s just familiarity with the tools that can help you to derive alternatives approaches.
- lelanthran 1y ago> The last 10/10 difficulty problem I solved probably happened in my kitchen while I was chopping some onions. Were you the one who developed TOR?
- tom_m 1y ago100% - but this has always been true. Some people have always lived into the code before understanding. Now it's probably an even slippier slope. It's like you don't know how to ski and you're going down a really steep hill...now with AI, imagine that really steep hill is iced over.