4 ms·
> I hope it eventually comes back once it is more stable. Yes, me too. > Would be great to have an in kernel alternative to ZFS Yes it would. > for parity R
by lproven 1y ago
> I hope it eventually comes back once it is more stable.
Yes, me too.
> Would be great to have an in kernel alternative to ZFS
Yes it would.
> for parity RAID.
No.
Think of the Pareto Principle here. 80% of the people only use 20% of the functionality. BUT they don't all use the same 20% so overall you need 80% of the functionality... or more.
ZFS is one of the rivals here.
But Btrfs is another. Stratis is another. HAMMER2 is another. MDRAID is another. LVM is another.
All proviude some or all of that 20% and all have pros and cons.
The point is that, yes, ZFS is good at RAID and it's much much easier than ext4 on MDRAID or something.
Btrfs can do that too.
But ZFS and Btrfs do COW snapshots. Those are important too. OpenSUSE, Garuda Linux, siduction and others depend on Btrfs COW.
OK, fine, no problem, your use case is RAID. I use that too. Good.
But COW is just as important.
Integrity is just as important and Btrfs fails at that. That is why the Bcachefs slogan is "the COW filesystem that won't eat your data."
Btrfs ate my data 2-3 times a year for 4 years.
Doesn't matter how many people who praise it, what matters are the victims who have been burned when it fails. They prove that it does fail.
The point is not "I can do that with ext4 on mdraid" or "I can do that with LVM2" or "Btrfs is fine for me".
The point is something that can do _all of these_ and do it _better_ -- and here, "better" includes "in a simpler way".
Simpler here meaning "simpler to set up" and also "simpler in implementation" (compared to, say, Btrfs on LVM2, or Btrfs on mdraid, or LVM on mdraid, or ext4 on LVM on RAID.
Something that can remove entire layers of the stack and leave the same functionality is valuable.
Something that can remove 90% of the setup steps and leave identical functionality matters... Because different people do those steps in different order, or skip some, and you need to document that, and none of us document stuff enough.
The recovery steps for LVM on RAID are totally different from RAID on LVM. The recovery for Btrfs on mdraid is totally different from just Btrfs RAID.
This is why tools that eliminate this matter. Because when it matters whether you have
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
or
1 - 2 - 4 - 3 - 5
Then the sword that chops the Gordian knot here is one tool that does 1-5 in a single step.
This remains true even if you only use 1 and 5, or 2 and 3, and it still matters if you only do 4.
- pessimizer 1y agoAs far as I know, ZFS is either for smart people who want to do something sophisticated or trendy people who want to do something unwise. > ext4 on MDRAID or something Are trivially easy to set up, expand, or replace drives; require no upkeep; and no setup when placed into entirely different systems. Anybody using ZFS or ZFS-like to do some trivial standard RAID setup (unless they are used to and comfortable with ZFS, which is an entirely different story) is just begging to lose data. MDADM is fine.
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago> As far as I know, ZFS is either for smart people who want to do something sophisticated or trendy people who want to do something unwise. Or people who want data checksums. > Anybody using ZFS or ZFS-like to do some trivial standard RAID setup (unless they are used to and comfortable with ZFS, which is an entirely different story) is just begging to lose data. How? You just... hand it some devices, and it makes a pool. Drive replacement is a single command.
- lproven 1y agoNo. None of this. > Are trivially easy to set up Done it. Been doing it for 25+ years. ZFS is easier. MUCH easier, and much quicker too. > expand As easy with ZFS. > or replace drives; Easier with XFS. > require no upkeep; False. Ext4 requires the occasional check. This must be done offline. ZFS doesn't and can be scrubbed while online and actively in use. > and no setup when placed into entirely different systems. Same as ZFS. > Anybody using ZFS or ZFS-like to do some trivial standard RAID setup (unless they are used to and comfortable with ZFS, which is an entirely different story) is just begging to lose data. False. > MDADM is fine. I am not saying it isn't. I am saying ZFS is better. I think you haven't tried it, because your claims betray serious ignorance of what it can do. I built my main NAS box's ZRAID with the drives in USB-3 caddies on a Raspberry Pi 4. I moved it to the built in SATA controllers of an HP Microserver running TrueNAS Core. Imported and just worked. No reconfig, no rebuild, nothing. It moves seamlessly between Arm and x86, Linux and FreeBSD, no problem at all. Round trip if you want.